Why is BPS so bad and what should be done to improve it? (Boston: 2014, private schools)

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

You think free transit to school really makes up for the fact that it’s a highly selective school your literally have to test to get into? Naw... the UP academies of the world are not more exclusive than the obryant. That’s just nonsense. All these elementary charter schools/ I’m sure there getting the kids there somehow. These charter schools serve some very low income groups more or less than same groups as BPS as a whole. Unlike BLS/BLA

The entrance into private schools is just like exam schools (until last year you literally took the same test) except they’re open to everyone in the state and people who can pay have to pay. There are students who pay very very little, if anything at all.

Up Academy is a bit odd. They tried to run kennedy middle school in springfield. Kennedy is the worst school in the district. I don't mean a few kids acting up I mean like kids running around not even going to class, destroying property (flushing jackets down toilets, pulling bricks etc). UP academy tried a new principle but then they just pulled out. Didn't even last five years.

[BostonBornMassMade]

https://www.universalhub.com/2021/ap...-bpss-examless

The Exam school ruling was upheld. The appeal fell terribly flat. No exam admissions...for now

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by Boston Shudra

Yes. If Boston’s exam schools become public then so should all of MA’s private schools. Philips, BB&N, BC High, RL. All of them.

can't tell if this is serious lol . there is no legal grounds for doing this for private institutions. While I don't agree with getting rid of exam schools, it's public money and public policy they can't do whatever they want.

I do agree that elite private hs are much more gatekeepy than exam schools were when they had exams. They tend to be somewhat racially diverse in the sense that they educate rich kids of all colours. This is more true with elite private unis. Do you think those should be siezed too?


This schools discussion hyperfocuses on race and only does a passing mention to reaching economically disadvantaged more broadly. Maybe that's fair in the context of Boston demographics, but it's a divisive and less effective rhetorical choice.

BLA is about 36% economically disadvantaged students according to:

https://profiles.doe.mass.edu/stater...pulations.aspx

This is roughly the same percentage of economically disadvantaged students in the state (31.1 vs 31.6) so that's good on some level.

However Bridge Boston Charter School is 68.6% (right next door) and nearby Jeremiah Burke is 75.6%


BLS is at 18.9%


O'Bryant 51.1%
(Compare to Madison park 78.4%)

compared to some well known suburban public schools:

Milton high: 13.9%
Newton south: 8.7%
Weston high 4.3%

I'm curious what the actual numbers are for private schools. The super exclusive private schools like Phillips are able to hand pick high achieving low income students based specifically on that criteria if they want to. They have applicants from around the world to choose from and plenty of money to subsidize poor kids if they want to. On the other hand, they can really only do so much of that because they need to maintain their brand and funding. They can strictly pick based on criteria that isn't visible in exam schools.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by Space_League

can't tell if this is serious lol . there is no legal grounds for doing this for private institutions.

I'm pretty sure the state can do whatever they want when it comes to regulating, disbanding, making demands of private institutions. Granted, I know it won't happen because MA is a posterchild for gatekeeping along with CT, but a man can dream.

While I don't agree with getting rid of exam schools, it's public money and public policy they can't do whatever they want.

Do you have numbers for what % of BLS's funds come from the city vs the alumni association?

I do agree that elite private hs are much more gatekeepy than exam schools were when they had exams. They tend to be somewhat racially diverse in the sense that they educate rich kids of all colours. This is more true with elite private unis. Do you think those should be siezed too?

Sure, why not!

At the very least, they should be made to pay taxes.

This schools discussion hyperfocuses on race and only does a passing mention to reaching economically disadvantaged more broadly. Maybe that's fair in the context of Boston demographics, but it's a divisive and less effective rhetorical choice.

Is it? Socioeconomics are typically strongly tied to race in the metro area for a variety of reasons.

[BostonBornMassMade]

I think you all are underestimating the economic mix of some of the schools. I'm confident higher than the blue chip suburbs. But it varies depend on on the school, definitely.

By their very nature nature some of these schools a place poor and middle class kids go to learn and mimic upper middle class and upper class sensibilities.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

https://www.universalhub.com/2021/ap...-bpss-examless

The Exam school ruling was upheld. The appeal fell terribly flat. No exam admissions...for now

From what I been hearing, this is supposedly "temporary" and due to Covid with testing being unavailable to many students over the past year.

[BostonBornMassMade]

I don't know if it will remain temporary seems like a Trojan Horse. I'm sort of indifferent on it. I think untiering exam school might be better. At least have the three balanced creating 3 BLAs in effect. I dont know that might just make everyone upset. We need more Voke Tec schools really. And good ones. I also think some traditional larger high schools where the bulk of the kids live (Rozzie Westie HP Matt Dot Rox Eastie) might be good.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I think you all are underestimating the economic mix of some of the schools. I'm confident higher than the blue chip suburbs. But it varies depend on on the school, definitely.

By their very nature nature some of these schools a place poor and middle class kids go to learn and mimic upper middle class and upper class sensibilities.

I think the economic mix for the exam schools is better than expected. BLA over 1/3rd of students are low income, O'bryant over 50% low income students. BLS is only 19% low income students but that's still better than competitive suburban public schools.

What those numbers prove to me is that low income, high achievement students are absolutely capable of testing into these schools. Charter schools do much better as a front line defence for providing a safer environment and opportunities to underserved communities in raw numbers. However those exam schools serve and important place in the mix too. For kids who do test in that's an achievement and a sign of distinction.

My gut reaction towards removing the exams is negative, however I don't have that much information on it. I don't know what admission criteria they are replacing it with and I don't trust that whatever it is will be more objective or fair than the exam. That's not to say it couldn't be better I just don't know the details and my instinct is that it will probably hurt more than help.

I feel like the intentions are good but don't trust the outcomes. If you're a rich white or asian kid with great test scores, you can probably choose to go to another good school. If exam schools dropped down in the rankings many of those families would pay up to send the kids to private schools instead. The people who are at the biggest risk of getting screwed are probably low income kids who DID test into these schools and for whom the opportunities there really make a difference.

The other thing is I feel like if you have a stable /privledge upbringing to begin with it probably matters a lot less what school you go to. There is a certain point where schools are just so bad that the level of disruptions is counterproductive. Some of the BPS schools fall in that category.

I think my high school was like 20-25% percentile at the time. It was a fairly disruptive environment but not to the point of being totally disfunctional. There were still a clique of kids who were there to learn and a handful even went on to ivy league schools.

Overall I would say education system is absolutely broken in a long list of ways. MA does better than the other states on test scores but it's still far from adequete. Of all the many institutions that need reforms, public k-12 education is probably #1 on that list in terms of how broken it is and how much impact it would have on wellbeing if it was fixed. For that reason I can respect the impulse for things like this, even though I don't necessarily think it will turn out for the best.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Problem is 19% low income in a city where it's more like 60-70% low income kids is just absurd. The rich suburban schools aren't doing that same thing because they're representative of the kids in the community.

That's why private schools have more of a mix-because they want to, they can, and see it as a valuable thing and the right thing to do. They have the leeway to take the kids from Woburn East Boston Randolph Brockton Weymouth Chelsea and they do. Not in spades but they do, and have done so consistently for decades-without being asked.

Some lower level private schools like Boston Trinity Acadmey or the Woodward School for girls are better at it than a school like Derby or Fay... BCDS and RL are better at it than Bel Hill or Deerfield. St Pauls is better at it than Groton, Winsor is better with this than Newton Country Day....it all depends but you have to go to those causes and meet the kids. I've done that.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I think you all are underestimating the economic mix of some of the schools. I'm confident higher than the blue chip suburbs. But it varies depend on on the school, definitely.

By their very nature nature some of these schools a place poor and middle class kids go to learn and mimic upper middle class and upper class sensibilities.

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I don't know if it will remain temporary seems like a Trojan Horse. I'm sort of indifferent on it. I think untiering exam school might be better. At least have the three balanced creating 3 BLAs in effect. I dont know that might just make everyone upset.

Fwiw, as much as I dislike exclusionary suburban schools and as much as I worry about the future of my alma mater, Wikipedia says this is how they’ll be doing admissions without the test:

“The School Committee opted for an admissions procedure under which 20% of the incoming class would be accepted based on top grades, and the other 80% based on grades and zip codes. Students coming from zip codes with lower-income communities would receive preferential treatment.”

And honestly that sounds pretty great.
Provided that BPS can control grade inflation.

You still wind up with top students, but you ensure a certain amount of diversified representation at least until every Boston zip has the same financial statistics!

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

The rich suburban schools aren't doing that same thing because they're representative of the kids in the community.

So long as they only serve ~300 students at a time regardless of funding, they could have 50% of each graduating class be low income and still serve magnitudes fewer than the exam schools..