Why is BPS so bad and what should be done to improve it? (Boston: wages, housing)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

Why tf would it make sense to send suburban (presumably white) kids into BPS? Tell me how this helps those who are in BPS now and suffering its ills?

Just another example of pissed off white people wanting to kill a program that helps black kids, because "nobody is helping MY kids!"

I mean they wouldn’t all be white- and secondly it would be for racial exposure and to diversify the schools in the area in general. Almost like county schools in the south or whatever.

[WestieWhitie]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

As a senior at Boston Latin many moons ago, I suggested the same thing in one of my classes, kind of a reverse METCO. Of course I got shouted down by my classmates saying such an idea would take away from local Boston kids. My teacher went on to say that suburban parents would only be interested in the exam high schools anyways. Ironically, a generation or two before my time, suburban kids were allowed to attend Boston Public Schools so long as their parents pay up the amount of taxpayer money it cost the City for that seat, so it was kind of a tuition fee or so you may. Those were the days when the BPS actually offered a better education than the suburban schools. I am not sure if the BPS' reputation has soured to the degree that no suburban parent could ever trust the system anymore even if it tried the hardest to improve itself. I still think it is an idea worth visiting.

But wait, aren't all the judgegarrities out there telling us that pre-busing BPS was awful and busing actually made it better?

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

Why tf would it make sense to send suburban (presumably white) kids into BPS? Tell me how this helps those who are in BPS now and suffering its ills?

Just another example of pissed off white people wanting to kill a program that helps black kids, because "nobody is helping MY kids!"

Just another example of one of your generalizing racist responses to an idea promoted in good faith.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

Just another example of one of your generalizing racist responses to an idea promoted in good faith.

Good Faith?

The purpose of programs like Metco isn't for diversity. It's to give kids in BPS a real chance. It's not some feel good idea for kids of different backgrounds to join hands.

The idea of killing it, in favor of bringing white kids into BPS, does nothing to help the black and Hispanic kids of BPS to maybe get a fair chance at life. We know what would happen - few white kids would participate, the program will slowly die, and then Metco would be gone. Black and brown kids have lost their chance, and the white people who hated Metco all along, are happy.

So tell me how that idea is in good Faith, and not just another way to screw black people yet again?

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

Good Faith?

The purpose of programs like Metco isn't for diversity. It's to give kids in BPS a real chance. It's not some feel good idea for kids of different backgrounds to join hands.

The idea of killing it, in favor of bringing white kids into BPS, does nothing to help the black and Hispanic kids of BPS to maybe get a fair chance at life. We know what would happen - few white kids would participate, the program will slowly die, and then Metco would be gone. Black and brown kids have lost their chance, and the white people who hated Metco all along, are happy.

So tell me how that idea is in good Faith, and not just another way to screw black people yet again?

Excuse me, but please point to where I suggested to kill it? BTW not all suburban kids are white (and all poor kids aren't black), Joe.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

As a senior at Boston Latin many moons ago, I suggested the same thing in one of my classes, kind of a reverse METCO. Of course I got shouted down by my classmates saying such an idea would take away from local Boston kids. My teacher went on to say that suburban parents would only be interested in the exam high schools anyways. Ironically, a generation or two before my time, suburban kids were allowed to attend Boston Public Schools so long as their parents pay up the amount of taxpayer money it cost the City for that seat, so it was kind of a tuition fee or so you may. Those were the days when the BPS actually offered a better education than the suburban schools. I am not sure if the BPS' reputation has soured to the degree that no suburban parent could ever trust the system anymore even if it tried the hardest to improve itself. I still think it is an idea worth visiting.

I don't know, but it could be something along the lines of an exchange student type thing. I do definitely think a fresh evaluation is needed to determine what could be scrapped and what could be added. There's a lot of money and resources involved here and they should be used to the greatest possible benefit to those they purport to serve.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by WestieWhitie

But wait, aren't all the judgegarrities out there telling us that pre-busing BPS was awful and busing actually made it better?

If anyone ever told you that, all you have to do is dig deep into the archives of Boston and show them pictures like the one of 1960's Boston English High School I shared in the third post in this thread here: https://www.city-data.com/forum/bost...niversary.html

I recently showed that same picture to a new colleague who happened to be a more recent English High graduate and she agreed that English High of old looked a lot better than the current building it is housed in. The poor lady knew nothing about the history of her school, its once proud tradition, its longstanding rivalry to Boston Latin, or the fact that it is the oldest public high school in the whole nation as mentioned in Encyclopedia Britannica. No one at the school bothered to tell her the history. It's like not only the reputation of the BPS have gone down the drain but their pride as well. Other neighborhood schools of old like Dorchester, Hyde Park, Jeremiah Burke, or Brighton or even middle schools like the Wilson, the Irving, etc. may not have the same illustrious history but dig deep enough and you'll find that graduates have gone on to make proud accomplishments. The neighborhood schools were once the pillar of the communities they served. Busing along with a change in societal values took all of that away.

Sadly, Boston has changed and I don't know how it can ever change back. It takes effort to create good schools and sustain them like pasteurizing and fermenting wine. Here's a recent story of how a once hopeful experiment ended in failure https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on...BingNewsSearch.

[psikeyhackr]

As usual this thread makes no significant use of words related to CURIOSITY. I found one use in 33 pages. Apparently across the United States students are supposed to be motivated by competition with other students for grades.


I remember one class in college where the instructor walked in the first day and said he was giving out "2 A's and 4 B's." He hadn't taught squat. I don't even remember what the class was about but I remember that.


I care about what interests me. If I am interested I will get an A or a B and don't care very much which. It is often possible to get an A by memorizing without actually understanding the material. It is also possible to get a B with understanding without doing the idiotic busywork necessary for an A.


So how do kids get out of grammar school without having their curiosities stimulated about something and how do you people discuss education and not bring that up?


Are you people just complaining about schools not doing a good enough job of producing worker drones?


Try science fiction for curiosity stimulation:


A Fall of Moondust by Arthur C Clarke not Star Wars by Lucas Lunatic.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by psikeyhackr

As usual this thread makes no significant use of words related to CURIOSITY. I found one use in 33 pages. Apparently across the United States students are supposed to be motivated by competition with other students for grades.


I remember one class in college where the instructor walked in the first day and said he was giving out "2 A's and 4 B's." He hadn't taught squat. I don't even remember what the class was about but I remember that.


I care about what interests me. If I am interested I will get an A or a B and don't care very much which. It is often possible to get an A by memorizing without actually understanding the material. It is also possible to get a B with understanding without doing the idiotic busywork necessary for an A.


So how do kids get out of grammar school without having their curiosities stimulated about something and how do you people discuss education and not bring that up?


Are you people just complaining about schools not doing a good enough job of producing worker drones?


Try science fiction for curiosity stimulation:


A Fall of Moondust by Arthur C Clarke not Star Wars by Lucas Lunatic.

You do raise interesting points. I too agree that for too long, kids in public schools are taught things they really aren't interested in and worse they are taught in ways that don't stimulate interest. Be aware though the reason why kids these days are taught to become worker drones because that is the politically safe thing for teachers to do lest they face backlash from cagey parents and administrators. Public schools do not teach what you want to learn, they only teach what the government wants you to learn and how they want you to learn it. I am particularly frustrated that many if not most BPS students are glued to their seats for much of the day. There's no time to get up, walk around, and ponder things like the way students in Aristotle's Lyceum used to. In fact, I'd much prefer an experimental school where classes can take turns from time to time walking the school grounds and discussing lessons with their instructors. Walking and talking energizes students and keeps them engaged. Of course a class size would have to be sufficiently small for such an exercise to happen but that can happen if the BPS administrators put in the right investments and shrug off all this political nonsense that has been plaguing our schools for so long.

[psikeyhackr]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

You do raise interesting points. I too agree that for too long, kids in public schools are taught things they really aren't interested in and worse they are taught in ways that don't stimulate interest. Be aware though the reason why kids these days are taught to become worker drones because that is the politically safe thing for teachers to do lest they face backlash from cagey parents and administrators. Public schools do not teach what you want to learn, they only teach what the government wants you to learn and how they want you to learn it. I am particularly frustrated that many if not most BPS students are glued to their seats for much of the day. There's no time to get up, walk around, and ponder things like the way students in Aristotle's Lyceum used to. In fact, I'd much prefer an experimental school where classes can take turns from time to time walking the school grounds and discussing lessons with their instructors. Walking and talking energizes students and keeps them engaged. Of course a class size would have to be sufficiently small for such an exercise to happen but that can happen if the BPS administrators put in the right investments and shrug off all this political nonsense that has been plaguing our schools for so long.

For social commentary on education and society:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_Passage_(novel)


For criticism of Aristotle:

https://ericflint.fandom.com/wiki/16..._Kremlin_Games


1632 should probably be read before the 2nd book though.
https://www.baen.com/1632.html
https://ericflint.fandom.com/wiki/1632_(novel)
https://ericflint.fandom.com/wiki/1632_series