How's that vaccine passport working out? (Boston, Brookline: exemptions, living, cost)

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Where did you see this?



You do know that kids can spread it to adults, right? And you also understand that we do not know the long term effects Covid can have on kids, right?



I know somebody now suffering from long Covid, she got it from her kids who she's pretty sure picked it up at school. If all kids at that school had been vaxxed, there's probably a good chance she would not be suffering today.

My base assumption is that if a virus were strong enough to engender substantial long-term effects in a population, in this case children, then it would also be strong enough to kill more than 0.002% of said population. A virus that kills almost no children now (even with more than 1/3 of the children in the U.S. having been infected by it before this recent winter surge, according to the CDC), but is some sort of time bomb where the effects are going to be seen years down the road: that sounds like science fiction to me. Of course, this virus was probably made in a lab, and anything is possible. But I haven't seen anybody make a strong enough case for me to change my base assumption. "We don't know what the long-term effects are" is not by itself a strong case; it seems more like a rhetorical tactic used to defend restrictions.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

My base assumption is that if a virus were strong enough to engender substantial long-term effects in a population, in this case children, then it would also be strong enough to kill more than 0.002% of said population. A virus that kills almost no children now (even with more than 1/3 of the children in the U.S. having been infected by it before this recent winter surge, according to the CDC), but is some sort of time bomb where the effects are going to be seen years down the road: that sounds like science fiction to me. Of course, this virus was probably made in a lab, and anything is possible. But I haven't seen anybody make a strong enough case for me to change my base assumption. "We don't know what the long-term effects are" is not by itself a strong case; it seems more like a rhetorical tactic used to defend restrictions.

I'm very curious as to how you personally determine the quality of evidence? On one hand, you don't believe that it's possible for long term effects of COVID to exist in children (even though long COVID in children impacting specific organ groups is pretty well documented at this point). But on the on the other hand, your more than comfortable claiming that vaccine requirements and COVID restrictions are a coordinated international conspiracy orchestrated by governments, corporations, and the media around the world while providing zero evidence to support any of it.

[wmass]

Somerville, Amherst and Northampton Boards of Health have all rejected proposed vaccine passports. Good to know there are still some reasonable people out there making decisions. In Boston, I guess not so much.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by lrfox

I'm very curious as to how you personally determine the quality of evidence? On one hand, you don't believe that it's possible for long term effects of COVID to exist in children (even though long COVID in children impacting specific organ groups is pretty well documented at this point). But on the on the other hand, your more than comfortable claiming that vaccine requirements and COVID restrictions are a coordinated international conspiracy orchestrated by governments, corporations, and the media around the world while providing zero evidence to support any of it.

The answer to your question: intuition.

I said in my previous post that it's possible for long-term effects of Covid to exist in children (I don't appreciate you lying and claiming that I said the opposite), it's just that, given the way Covid has shown to present itself in children, my intuition tells me there's almost no chance it's something that's going to give these children problems years down the road.

Communication is definitely coordinated between institutions across the world (and that by itself is not sufficient to prove a grand nefarious conspiracy is going on), and governments copy each other. I look at it less like a conspiracy and more like a runaway train; when institutions/bureaucracies get invested in a certain narrative, it's very difficult to turn around. That's why you have average people knowing that this is mostly BS but you still have absurd diktats coming down (such as the topic of this thread) in certain places, although that might be receding some.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by HowieCFan

This has been an interesting thread to read. It’s also one of the most inane I have ever come across on this site. How come nobody mentions the fact that we are hoarding resources (vaccines, etc.) in this country while millions upon millions of people in the less-developed world have yet to even gain access to those same resources? Isn’t that a bit of an issue, or do people just not care?

This is true only for Africa really. In every other continent the percentage of fully vaccinated people is comparable to the percentage in the US. The US is at 63% and every other continent is between 59 and 66%, except for Africa. So the problem at this point really isn't rich countries hoarding vaccines.

Besides, there are 8 vaccines against covid-19 approved by the WHO. Plus many more approved in some countries but without the WHO stamp of approval. This really isn't about the US not sending doses of Moderna to Chad.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

The answer to your question: intuition.

I said in my previous post that it's possible for long-term effects of Covid to exist in children (I don't appreciate you lying and claiming that I said the opposite), it's just that, given the way Covid has shown to present itself in children, my intuition tells me there's almost no chance it's something that's going to give these children problems years down the road.

Communication is definitely coordinated between institutions across the world (and that by itself is not sufficient to prove a grand nefarious conspiracy is going on), and governments copy each other. I look at it less like a conspiracy and more like a runaway train; when institutions/bureaucracies get invested in a certain narrative, it's very difficult to turn around. That's why you have average people knowing that this is mostly BS but you still have absurd diktats coming down (such as the topic of this thread) in certain places, although that might be receding some.

Not sure how you arrived at that assumption. The rare adverse affects from the vaccine ie. myocarditis, almost all seem to be immediate and acute. I'm not aware of an incidence of "delayed reactions" past a few weeks, it's not like the mRNA vaccines stay in your body. The long haul symptoms however that people are experiencing, can appear a week, 4 weeks, 4 months later...

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Not sure how you arrived at that assumption. The rare adverse affects from the vaccine ie. myocarditis, almost all seem to be immediate and acute. I'm not aware of an incidence of "delayed reactions" past a few weeks, it's not like the mRNA vaccines stay in your body. The long haul symptoms however that people are experiencing, can appear a week, 4 weeks, 4 months later...

I didn't make any claim about the vaccines, or even mention them. Was this reply meant for someone else?

[Mayei]

Originally Posted by wmass

Somerville, Amherst and Northampton Boards of Health have all rejected proposed vaccine passports. Good to know there are still some reasonable people out there making decisions. In Boston, I guess not so much.

That's encouraging. However, that reinforces my opinion that these measures in Boston & Brookline are unjust and ineffective. I'm concerned about when the measures will be lifted.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns

The answer to your question: intuition.

I said in my previous post that it's possible for long-term effects of Covid to exist in children (I don't appreciate you lying and claiming that I said the opposite), it's just that, given the way Covid has shown to present itself in children, my intuition tells me there's almost no chance it's something that's going to give these children problems years down the road.

Communication is definitely coordinated between institutions across the world (and that by itself is not sufficient to prove a grand nefarious conspiracy is going on), and governments copy each other. I look at it less like a conspiracy and more like a runaway train; when institutions/bureaucracies get invested in a certain narrative, it's very difficult to turn around. That's why you have average people knowing that this is mostly BS but you still have absurd diktats coming down (such as the topic of this thread) in certain places, although that might be receding some.

Oh, I'm very sorry. You're right, there's a whole lot of room in that big space between "science fiction"/"almost no chance" and "impossible." My sincerest apologies for misconstruing what you said

It sounds like you're confusing "intuition" with "confirmation bias." You're more than willing to disregard the best available information if doesn't fit your narrative while simultaneously alleging a massive worldwide collaborative effort (with "dark tones" akin to fascist regimes) to take away people's freedoms in spite of having no actual evidence of it. Good intuition should trigger a "hey, maybe I'm going a little overboard with some of this" response.

While we obviously don't yet know what the longer term impacts of the virus on children are, we do know that many kids are experiencing lingering symptoms that impact vital organ groups and are sometimes life threatening. It's hardly "science fiction" to believe that prolonged stress on vital organs and systems in a developing child may an adverse impact down the road. That's why there are people who know a hell of a lot more than you and I studying this. We'll know more later, but it would be irresponsible to operate as if it's "science fiction" just because we have a silly notion that shadowy powers around the world are conspiring to take our freedoms away from us.

[tribecavsbrowns]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Oh, I'm very sorry. You're right, there's a whole lot of room in that big space between "science fiction"/"almost no chance" and "impossible." My sincerest apologies for misconstruing what you said

It sounds like your confusing "intuition" with "confirmation bias." You're more than willing to disregard the best available information if doesn't fit your narrative while simultaneously alleging a massive worldwide collaborative effort (with "dark tones" akin to fascist regimes) to take away people's freedoms in spite of having no actual evidence of it. Good intuition should trigger a "hey, maybe I'm going a little overboard with some of this" response.

While we obviously don't yet know what the longer term impacts of the virus on children are, we do know that many kids are experiencing lingering symptoms that impact vital organ groups and are sometimes life threatening. It's hardly "science fiction" to believe that prolonged stress on vital organs and systems in a developing child may an adverse impact down the road. That's why there are people who know a hell of a lot more than you and I studying this. We'll know more later, but it would be irresponsible to operate as if it's "science fiction" just because we have a silly notion that shadowy powers around the world are conspiring to take our freedoms away from us.

It's a shame you felt the need to respond this way. I literally said "anything is possible," but you felt compelled to lie, and so you said I claimed it's impossible for long Covid effects to exist in kids. Then I called you out on the lie and get this unwarranted sarcasm in response. Be better.

We'll indeed know more later about long Covid. I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that we'll know it's a nothingburger, at least in children. As I said, it sounds like science fiction for there to be a pathogen that causes significant "stress on vital organs and systems in developing children" down the road, yet somehow doesn't make them very sick when they catch it.