Pig kidney transplanted into man at Mass General Hospital (live, move)

[CaseyB]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Are you inferring that he had one good kidney and one bad one or what because that would be unusual, my husband's kidney's are failing but both of them are damaged not just one

Both his original kidneys were bad. He had a previous transplant kidney a few years ago and that was now failing so that's how he ended up with the pig kidney.

[Listener2307]

Originally Posted by msRB311

we're definitely not at that point yet where we need to worry about having enough people

When we are at that point it will be too late to do the years of research and testing that will be necessary.

[GeePee]

Serious question:
Is a genetically engineered pig considered Kosher?

[BOORGONG]

Originally Posted by GeePee

Serious question:
Is a genetically engineered pig considered Kosher?

I "axed" that question earlier and got no response.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by GeePee

Serious question:
Is a genetically engineered pig considered Kosher?

From My Jewish Learning:

According to Jewish law, any of the mitzvot (commandments) in the Torah (except idolatry, murder, and forbidden sexual relationships) can and in fact should be violated in order to save a person’s life; the pikuach nefesh principle is that strong. This means that even if the use of pig parts wasn’t generally allowed by halacha, when people’s lives are at stake, we are commanded to do whatever is necessary to save them.

There's some other interesting stuff in the article about the origin of the whole "don't touch pig flesh" prohibition and how it came about.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by GeePee

Serious question:
Is a genetically engineered pig considered Kosher?

here is discussion from a site that considers it from the perspective of halacha (Jewish law)

Is it acceptable to receive transplant of organs grown inside pigs?
If scientists could grow human organs inside of pigs, would it be halachically acceptable to receive a transplant of such an organ?


pikuach nefesh (breaking halacha to save a life) may or may not apply ???? per this comment, "Second issue: Chazal do not allow for adding pikuach nefesh where the danger is not imminent. That's why there's no exception for a Cohen attending medical school to work on a cadaver - future potential for life saving doesn't count." i am not a rav but am curious to hear the halachic perspective on this. Maybe rosends will check in on this thread topic.


here is article by an MD who is a Jewish medical ethicist Dr. Fred Rosner, who discusses it in depth including the issues in halacha (Jewish law) related to prevention of animal cruelty and ethical treatment of animals, Pig Organs for Transplant, A Jewish View

there are also prohibitions in Jewish law related to genetic engineering (kilayim, mixing of seeds, mixing of species). the specific case mentioned in the opening post of this thread indicates it was not just a "regular pig kidney" but a genetically modified pig kidney that had something like 62 genetic edits done on it. So i would be curious to hear from a rav or rabbi on that issue as well. this article discusses Jewish Perspectives on Genetic Engineering

there are very few areas that are more fascinating to me than medical ethics from a halachic perspective. I have worked in healthcare for decades and medical ethics has always fascinated me, and even moreso from the perspective of Jewish law. One of the best speakers i ever heard was at shul (synagogue) a rabbi speaking on various medical ethics issues. It only lasted 3 hours, i could have spent weeks or months hearing more on that.

[rosends]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

here is discussion from a site that considers it from the perspective of halacha (Jewish law)

Is it acceptable to receive transplant of organs grown inside pigs?
If scientists could grow human organs inside of pigs, would it be halachically acceptable to receive a transplant of such an organ?


pikuach nefesh (breaking halacha to save a life) may or may not apply ???? per this comment, "Second issue: Chazal do not allow for adding pikuach nefesh where the danger is not imminent. That's why there's no exception for a Cohen attending medical school to work on a cadaver - future potential for life saving doesn't count." i am not a rav but am curious to hear the halachic perspective on this. Maybe rosends will check in on this thread topic.


here is article by an MD who is a Jewish medical ethicist Dr. Fred Rosner, who discusses it in depth including the issues in halacha (Jewish law) related to prevention of animal cruelty and ethical treatment of animals, Pig Organs for Transplant, A Jewish View

there are also prohibitions in Jewish law related to genetic engineering (kilayim, mixing of seeds, mixing of species). the specific case mentioned in the opening post of this thread indicates it was not just a "regular pig kidney" but a genetically modified pig kidney that had something like 62 genetic edits done on it. So i would be curious to hear from a rav or rabbi on that issue as well. this article discusses Jewish Perspectives on Genetic Engineering

there are very few areas that are more fascinating to me than medical ethics from a halachic perspective. I have worked in healthcare for decades and medical ethics has always fascinated me, and even moreso from the perspective of Jewish law. One of the best speakers i ever heard was at shul (synagogue) a rabbi speaking on various medical ethics issues. It only lasted 3 hours, i could have spent weeks or months hearing more on that.

I don't know of any reason that a Jew cannot receive an organ from an animal (kosher or not). The prohibition is against eating them. In terms of whether a genetically modified pig can receive enough "modifications" that it is no longer a pig and is therefore kosher to eat, I would guess that that won't happen. The signs required for an animal to be kosher are not the things being modified by genetic splicing.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by rosends

I don't know of any reason that a Jew cannot receive an organ from an animal (kosher or not). The prohibition is against eating them. In terms of whether a genetically modified pig can receive enough "modifications" that it is no longer a pig and is therefore kosher to eat, I would guess that that won't happen. The signs required for an animal to be kosher are not the things being modified by genetic splicing.

the question that comes to mind regarding genetic editing of the pig kidney that is placed into human, is that the pig kidney received human genes. If human genes were placed into the pig kidney before it was transplanted into the human, isn't that mixing species?


"The pig kidney was genetically edited using CRISPR-Cas9 technology to remove harmful pig genes and add certain human genes to improve its compatibility with humans."

"The kidney came from a pig engineered by the biotech company eGenesis, which removed three genes involved in potential rejection of the organ. In addition, seven human genes were inserted to enhance human compatibility. Pigs carry retroviruses that may infect humans, and the company also inactivated the pathogens."

source

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

the question that comes to mind regarding genetic editing of the pig kidney that is placed into human, is that the pig kidney received human genes. If human genes were placed into the pig kidney before it was transplanted into the human, isn't that mixing species?

"The pig kidney was genetically edited using CRISPR-Cas9 technology to remove harmful pig genes and add certain human genes to improve its compatibility with humans."

"The kidney came from a pig engineered by the biotech company eGenesis, which removed three genes involved in potential rejection of the organ. In addition, seven human genes were inserted to enhance human compatibility. Pigs carry retroviruses that may infect humans, and the company also inactivated the pathogens."

source

This is pretty amazing technology. Next step would be to program the tissue with the patient's own recognition proteins (MHC) so that his immune system will see it as self, rather than non-self. This is pretty complex and not all the mechanisms are understood, but they're making progress.

The notion that eventually we could grow usable organs in animals or even just in vats without needing to sacrifice an animal, program to the recipient's needs, then put them in and the patient will be virtually as good as new... maybe it's still a dream today, but it seems like it could be a reality before too long.

Imagine getting a fresh new heart, that rewinds an elderly person's cardiovascular system to that of a 20-year-old. Of course they'd still need to clean out the cholesterol plaque, but that's probably coming as well.

[msRB311]

Let's all live forever