The Boston Accent (Cambridge, Quincy, Holden: living, rating, transit)

[Finocchio]

Originally Posted by wxjay

Growing up in RI, there is most definitely a distinct accent difference between Bostonians, SE MA-ites, and RIers. I used to have a thick RI accent when I was growing up but it waned substantially as I moved around the country for college. It creeps back up every so often, and now that I am living back in MA, some of it is coming back.

That said, I still love the accent.

There certainly is.

There's a Long Islandy twang to what is now coming up from Rhode Island and finding its way into the Boston vernacular. It's evolving but, in my view, not for the better.

[Finocchio]

Originally Posted by lukec

I once remember a linguist stating that there are something like 30 distinct accents in Eastern Massachusetts and I believe it. I'm from Fall River and New Bedford, and there is a strong distinction between those two even though they are right next door. I remember some people that sounded little like the Kennedys.

Its not just the "ah" sound, its where its placed and high the pitch is. Thick accents place the "ah" in place of regular "o" like cahps and rahbbers. I actually knew some people from Taunton that sounded like the Kennedys. There pitch on the "ah" though was so high, they would literally sounded more like "caps and rabbers".

I've always been interested in these demarcation points. There are parts of Boston that pronounce yes with two syllables - yee-es, but most promounces it conventionally. When I try to pinpoint it, I cant.

There is no pinpointing it I think. My friend from high school says "Auntie Ann" as if she were saying "Auntie IAN". I'd never correct her but I repeat the proper pronunciation of the given name "Ann(e)" as often as I can. It makes no difference. She hasn't a clue she's doing it.

I know people from Medford to Quincy who say yee-es.[quote/] They say theeeeeeeeanks for "thanks" too.

South and west of Boston, towards Fall River, the accent almost takes on a New York flavor. All my family from Fall River pronounces orange like it is spelled, but that sounds funny to me because everyone else pronounces it "are"ange instead of "or"ange. And they say dawg instead of dog and walk comes out wawk.

You've nailed it precisely Lukec. In New Bedford they say "enah thin' " for "anything". Go to Marion or Mattapoisett and it's "anything" ("y" and "g" pronounced). I grew up in Plymouth County and it was "Praw' vid ence". In Providence though it's pronounced "PRAH' vid ence" the "a" changes distinctly.

The Kennedys only "took on" the Brahmin accent when they Harvardized themselves. Rose insisted on it.

For the record I say "AW range" .. that "AH range" thing has crept up from the Bronx.

[Finocchio]

Originally Posted by ogre

Nancy Thereader, there are slight differences in the accent, depending on which section of the metro area--sometimes even which city or town, or neighborhood--you're in. The accent is also very diluted in many suburbs and in the central city area of Boston, where many transplants live. But yes, Click and Clack provide a very good example of a typical accent you would have heard all around eastern MA a few decades ago, and can still hear in the more insular neighborhoods and blue-collar small cities. I haven't watched This Old House in a few years, but if Tom Silva is still on that show, you can check out his appearances on the show, because his accent is another good example.

Yes very good example and it's cacophony itself to these ears.

Check out a clip from On Golden Pond at YouTube and listen to how Katharine Hepburn says "Chahlie" (the postman) and "Nohman" (her husband). That's the accent of which I speak.

If I have the right picture of the accent Finnochio is describing as the "proper" Boston accent, I think that he/she would not see Click and Clack or Tom Silva as having "proper" accents.

You have the right picture.

If I've got the right picture, what Finnochio is saying is the proper Boston accent is the Brahmin accent. Think Chahles Ehmuhsuhn Winchestuh the Thuhd on MASH, except that he was an actor playing a part and not a genuine Boston Brahmin with a genuine accent.

Good comparison but I'm thinking more along the lines of Katharine Hepburn and the late Brooke Astor.

Maybe not too bad an attempt, but not quite the true Brahmin accent.

You're very astute.

No matter what one person or another considers the "proper" Boston accent, however, Click and Clack's accents are more widespread than the Brahmin accent,

You've lost me. What is the "Click and Clack" accent??

... which is usually heard only in rather rarified old-money circles.

Spend the summer in Pride's Crossing or in Duxbury. It exists still and thrives especially within the elder generation thank goodness. In its own right it's a thing of genuine beauty. In the 1930s Hollywood actresses were trained to have a version of the Brahmin accent. However Hepburn's was the genuine article. Bette Davis was a combination of improper and proper. She hailed from Lowell and her parents had fallen on hard times by the time she was born so they lived in a rather iffy neighborhood.

[Finocchio]

Originally Posted by massnative71

It's true that I've never met anyone who speaks like the Kennedys do, they really have an accent all of their own. Maybe Boston mixed in with Old Yankee/Brahmin, and possibly even a touch of New York in there.

I know as fact that Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy (the granddaughter of an Irish immigrant to Boston) was upwardly mobile. When she and her husband became monied they reinvented themselves as if they were members of Boston's Old Guard.

I stated earlier and I repeat; When the Kennedy boys entered Harvard they were instructed by Rose to use the Brahmin accent.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Finocchio

You don't have a proper Boston accent. You have a Southie/Revere/Medford, etc. accent. That's not the original Boston accent before it was corrupted. Marky Mark grew up speaking just that way.

Which one does he have? Is it the Southie accent, the Revere accent, or the Medford accent?

So the "proper" Boston accent was corrupted? Do you think they landed on Plymouth Rock speaking like the Kennedys?

[Finocchio]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Which one does he have? Is it the Southie accent, the Revere accent, or the Medford accent?

He has (had) the Southie accent.

So the "proper" Boston accent was corrupted? Do you think they landed on Plymouth Rock speaking like the Kennedys?

Hardly. The English landed on Plymouth Rock not the Irish. To gain a very accurate view of the English Pilgrim accent that came with those first European settlers in 1620 have a visit to Plimoth Plantation. They've studied the regions in England from whence each family came and done their level best to have the representative interpreter speak with as close a facsimile to the original (by example) Elder Brewster accent as possible. It's fascinating.

The Kennedys came in the 1850s from Ireland during the Great Potato famine and spoke English with and Irish lilt. The last Kennedy to bear any indication of his Rose-imposed Brahmin accent was the late Senator Edward Moore Kennedy. It's all homogenization now within that tribe.

And yes the proper Boston accent has been corrupted in my view.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Finocchio

Hardly. The English landed on Plymouth Rock not the Irish. To gain a very accurate view of the English Pilgrim accent that came with those first European settlers in 1620 have a visit to Plimoth Plantation. They've studied the regions in England from whence each family came and done their level best to have the representative interpreter speak with as close a facsimile to the original (by example) Elder Brewster accent as possible. It's fascinating.

My whole point. You could say your "proper brahmin' accent is a corruption of that Elder Brewster accent. Speech patterns evolve over time. Some will be surprised to learn that our present day "Boston accent" is much closer to King George English than what's currently spoken in England today. Their language has "evolved" much more than ours.

[ogre]

Check Nancy Thereader's question in post 89. She's asking whether the accent of Click and Clack, the hosts (two brothers if I'm not mistaken) of the radio show Car Talk, is an example of a typical Boston accent. It's very much an example of the features heard in Boston accents commonly used at present, which I'm thinking you would consider improper. So, my reference to the "Click and Clack accent" meant a typical, non-Brahmin Boston accent of the sort in widespread use today.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by Finocchio

Yes. Pity too. I do realize that. James Michael Curley was elected to Mayoral status from JAIL. That ought to take care of the propriety question. And of course you see what's become of Boston since?

I thought you'd see what I meant. And kindly when using the collective (since you appear to want to be confrontational) do NOT use an apostrophe when pluralizing dates. PROPERLY written it's "1800s". There's nothing possessive about your use of a slice of time.

Right.

Boston's done just fine since your ilk were sent packing.

Do not lecture me on punctuation. Until very recently including the apostrophe was standard usage in many publications. The New York Times, for example, just changed its convention in late 2007. In any event, this is an online forum. Although I generally use proper punctuation, sometimes it takes a back seat to speed. The same is true of you ("spoke English with and Irish lilt"). "And," you may know, is a conjunction. PROPERLY, when using the indefinite article before a vowel, one would say "an." And the period goes inside the closing quotation marks.

Right.

[Finocchio]

Originally Posted by massnative71

My whole point. You could say your "proper brahmin' accent is a corruption of that Elder Brewster accent. Speech patterns evolve over time. Some will be surprised to learn that our present day "Boston accent" is much closer to King George English than what's currently spoken in England today. Their language has "evolved" much more than ours.

You needn't instruct me in things of which I'm already entirely aware. I realize fully that language evolves. What I've stated since I began commenting on this topic is a matter of personal opinion. I find the Brahmin accent (which has not changed to any marked degree since the middle - at least - of the ninetheenth century) to be the proper one.

That's all folks ...

I do thank you for telling the rest of the posting crew that the Boston "accent" (whatever form it takes) is closer to what's spoken in any other part of this country to what's spoken in England today. The rest of the country ridicules us for saying "pahk your cah in Hahvad Yahd".

Trust me (listen to the Duchess of Cambridge by example or Wills himself). The English drop their final "r"s as readily as is done in any of the myriad of forms of the so-called "Boston accent".

For this contributor there is nothing more grating on his hearing than the accent used in upstate New York or "Wis cahn' sin". They pronounce the word "block" (as in "just around the block") identically to the way they pronounce the non-color "black". The vowels are dreadfully mutilated and flattened and to top it all they think they have the ideal "Amurkun" accent and poke fun at what's used here on the New England coast.