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Old 11-24-2012, 08:29 AM
 
2,174 posts, read 4,372,811 times
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I don't get all the people that rip on places like Boulder for trying to limit sprawl. Yes it makes it more expensive. But what if NO areas in the entire U.S. took a stand on this? What if Vermont and Boulder for example looked like another generic Phoenix or Dallas suburb? That would suck soooo bad and depress the hell out of me if the whole U.S. was trashed & there was no where to escape to. Trust me you would hate it too. And for the record I'm not a super far left liberal saying this. I am more of an independent and lean right on some issues. I'm so thankful at least some places like Boulder and VT took a stand and didn't allow their regions to be trashed.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Superior
724 posts, read 1,924,563 times
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I don't either, Ctr.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,087,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meowen View Post
Creating defined borders and building up would be a preventative measure for and is the opposite of sprawl, building out IS sprawl
True, but I don't see Boulder building up very much. Don't they have a height limit on buildings in Boulder?

I'm sort of torn on the "artificial limit" Boulder has placed on development. I love the town, but when you cap supply, demand pushes prices way up. And you can really tell when they stopped development. There are so many 60s/70s/early 80s neighborhoods, and then it looks like very few homes have been built since then. Or maybe that's just the areas I've driven though?

We've considered moving to Boulder, but it looks like we'd have to spend at least a million dollars and buy a screapeoff to get what we want.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Superior
724 posts, read 1,924,563 times
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I'd rather there be limits on building, even if that makes it harder for me, personally, to live there. It protects the character of the town, which is what makes it attractive in the first place. I suppose that's only sustainable as long as there are people willing and able to go in, tear down the outdated homes and rebuild them. As soon as that stops happening, you get a slum.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,087,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qfrost View Post
I'd rather there be limits on building, even if that makes it harder for me, personally, to live there. It protects the character of the town, which is what makes it attractive in the first place. I suppose that's only sustainable as long as there are people willing and able to go in, tear down the outdated homes and rebuild them. As soon as that stops happening, you get a slum.
I don't know... I lived in Orange County and there are cities, such as Pasadena, Long Beach, Santa Monica, Laguna Beach, and on and on... that maintain their own character and identity even though there is no "greeen space" between them and surrounding cities. Boulder would always be Boulder, even if the other suburbs crept into it. And with the mountains on one side, it will always be near "green space".
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Superior
724 posts, read 1,924,563 times
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Actually, I have to disagree with you Denvarian. I lived in Pasadena, and over the last 10-12 years it has gone from a great place to shop, live, to one so massively overbuilt it takes a 20 mins-half hour to get from one side of town to the other, where it used to take about 5-10 minutes. With the building of massive apt. towers, the congestion on the streets is horrible, parking is a pain in the popular sections where before it was never an issue. I've seen lots of nice character craftsman homes destroyed for stucco mcmansion style condos. They reactivated old train tracks to allow people to live in Pasadena and work downtown, which is what spurred some of the new apt complexes to be built. The light at the train, every 15 minutes, cutting across all major E-W routes south of Green street, is one of the reasons it takes so long to cross town. Just a few observations.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Centennial State
399 posts, read 813,885 times
Reputation: 176
Reminds me of the long stretch of homes along Federal Boulevard. This is why I like parking garages that are designed VERY well. Some of the parking lots in downtown Denver could EASILY be transformed into parking garages that would help with parking issues.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:19 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,957,630 times
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Wink Sprawl about and in Boulder

Golden might have a carefully crafted master plan in place—only I haven't seen it. What I have is what should qualify as sprawl by most definitions, just north of town, towards Boulder.

This extends from the center of town towards the north in a growing metropolis, spreading out at last in a most disagreeable fashion, as expressed by new, tightly packed suburbia. Once upon a time one could drive between Boulder and Golden and, other than a lovely view of the mountains to the west, see not much more than a few scattered houses and businesses. That is changing for the worse, and most significantly so near Golden. From this perspective, Golden appears to a growing example of what not to do.

Boulder, on the other hand, was wise in having the foresight to pay for and create a green buffer around their town. Many of those complaining about this are possibly just envious, wishing they enjoyed as much. Say what one will, physical separation makes a difference, and Boulder has it. All between Denver and Boulder has only grown in the last several decades, and without such self-imposed separation Boulder would surely by now have a lot of someone else's idea of progress on their doorstep.

What they have apparently overlooked, however, is that a town cannot continue to infill—even if the outer perimeter never expands—without fundamentally changing the character of the place. Those familiar with Boulder from several decades ago will understand as much, in comparison to that it is today. Traffic is one of those consequences, and you cannot replace one house with a bunch of condos without noticing just that many more neighbors at the stoplight. At some point a population pushing 100,000 might be considered settled in a city rather than town; such density changes the character of a place as well. Enjoy Boulder Falls, or hiking from Chautauqua? You'll have just that many more pals to do it with, like it or not.

The frontier in the United States officially ended in 1890. Yet the perception continues to exist that there is plenty of everything, and always room for one more shopping mall or tract of suburban housing, and an ever expanding national, as well as global, population. This misapprehension is beginning to bounce up against reality. Steps that places such as Boulder and Aspen have taken are an acknowledgment of that. Unfortunately this has consequences, such as inflated real estate prices; but largely because growth is so out of whack elsewhere. Los Angeles is a good example of how expansive growth eventually solves nothing, and at a point degrades the very nature of the place.

There is, indeed America, a point beyond where too much is simply that—and where a better balance best sought.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Superior
724 posts, read 1,924,563 times
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Idunn, we know the area you're speaking of very well, we looked at homes in those new suburbs over the last couple years. Have to agree with you, there doesn't seem to be any town plan in place, just developers taking fields and shoving as many homes as they can into them. Nice homes, to be sure, but it certainly has expanded rapidly.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:45 PM
 
Location: CO
2,885 posts, read 7,097,978 times
Reputation: 3987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idunn View Post
. . .
Boulder, on the other hand, was wise in having the foresight to pay for and create a green buffer around their town. . .
What they have apparently overlooked, however, is that a town cannot continue to infill—even if the outer perimeter never expands—without fundamentally changing the character of the place. Those familiar with Boulder from several decades ago will understand as much, in comparison to that it is today. Traffic is one of those consequences, and you cannot replace one house with a bunch of condos without noticing just that many more neighbors at the stoplight. At some point a population pushing 100,000 might be considered settled in a city rather than town; such density changes the character of a place as well. . .
Another unintendended/overlooked(?) issue that's emerging in Boulder -
Lee Hill Road site in north Boulder eyed for mixed residential housing
North Boulder Alliance wary of affordable housing overload

Quote:
Thistle Communities and Allison Management are under contract to buy the former fire training center in north Boulder from the county and turn it into a residential development with mixed market-rate and affordable housing.

Some north Boulder residents have said their community has too much affordable housing already, and future affordable housing projects should be located in other parts of the city.
. . .
Promboin said she'd like the city to develop policies to encourage more affordable housing in other parts of the city. North Boulder already has enough of it, she said.
"The issue that starts to trouble me is the concentration of affordable housing in north Boulder," she said. "It skews the diversity in a different way than the overall population with Boulder.". . .
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