Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I see a lot of excuses and bias in Richard Schaefer's take as well. Saying that Floyd taking on this fight now with legal proceedings in the works is too much of a distraction. Really? Who got themselves into this mess in the first place? As though Manny doesn't have distractions being a member of Congress? Every fighter has distractions, the best of the best work through them.
Sure Floyd got Floyd in trouble. That's not in dispute. It's simply what it is. Being a great athlete doesn't make one immune to making mistakes outside of the ring, off the field, court, ice, etc. As far as being a member of Congress as a distraction, come on man, that's a job. The two situations aren't really comparable.
Quote:
Saying he took on a prime De La Hoya or Mosley, or a "dangerous" opponent in Marquez...please.
And yet when did St. Manny start getting some mainstream appeal? After he fought...De La Hoya. Then he fought Hatton. Now he's about to fight Mosley. It's also interesting that you dismiss JMM, but St. Manny has been ducking him since he got that bogus decision back in 2008. It's funny how similar their recent resumés look, but somehow Floyd gets denigrated and St. Manny is all of that. Why? Because he beat Clottey whom he never hurt, but Joshua just refused to fire back? Or because he beat up on MargoCheato who didn't have the benefit of illegal handwraps, was available to be hit as always and slower than ever? There was Cotto, but almost everyone agrees that he wasn't the same after being battered by the MargoCheato.
Quote:
The first round of negotiations could be argued either way. Floyd demanding further tests because he was looking for any reason he could find to not make this fight. If Manny did pop positive, Floyd is off the hook. Perhaps Manny just didn't feel like conceding to the arrogant one's demands. Manny doesn't need him to make money, but right now, Floyd needs Manny. Who else is he going to fight? He certainly doesn't have the balls to go up in weight and take on a guy like Sergio Martinez at a 154 catch weight. Now that Paul Williams has been exposed he loses leverage for any potential fight with Mayweather, once again, Mayweather lets these guys eliminate themselves from contention. True champions take on tough challenges, they don't look for excuses to avoid them.
But if St. Manny were as clean as a whistle, why would there be any worry about Floyd being let off of the hook from a positive test? Floyd agreed to the Pacquiao camp's insane $10 million per pound over weight penalty.
I don't know that Paul Williams was exposed. He got caught with a shot that he never saw. It was a wild overhand left and it could've happened to any boxer. It was just one of those things. It was odd too because even though he didn't see it, Williams' has never been known to have a glass jaw. Styles make fights though and it's clear that the Punisher doesn't care for Sergio's style. Win or lose, Williams wasn't ever going to get a fight with Mayweather at 147 for the same reason that he won't get a fight a with St. Manny either. Too great of a physical advantage with that size and reach AND he's a busy fighter.
Floyd vs. Martinez would be interesting. I honestly don't know how exciting of a fight that would be to watch. The pickings are slim, the options are limited. Floyd is going to have to make a move after he gets past his legal issues. The thing is, he just can't pick anyone. It has to be someone credible AND more importantly, it has to be a fight that HBO believes will sell PPVs. We shall see...
Quote:
Sweet Science also doesn't mean that you run from your opponents and win by stealing rounds in the last 30 seconds. Manny does indeed box, you make it sound as though he's a Pier 6 brawler. He's not the most slick defensive fighter, but he makes up for it with a fairly solid chin, great stamina, hand and foot speed, throwing combinations from every angle, and accuracy. What more do you want? And let's face it, defensive fighters are boring, that's why Cory Spinks will never get a big money fight ever again. You need to have a mix of defense and offense, like Pernell Whitaker to make entertaining fights. That's what boxing is, a sport for entertainment.
Nah, I don't mean to sell St. Manny short. He's really developed into a more complete fighter under Freddie Roach. I'm really interested to see how he will cope if he ever has to deal with someone that can neutralize his offense, slow him down from doing what he likes to do and put him on the defensive.
Quote:
Cheater or not, he made for some exciting fights. BTW, poetic justice was served. During a sparring sessions in his preparation for the Mosley fight, he broke his sparring partner's eye socket, most likely from a loaded glove. Manny returned the favor, breaking his eye socket, without a loaded glove.
If he was even sparring with loaded gloves, he's even more cold-blooded than I thought. Ban him...
Quote:
Fans hated Floyd long before Manny came on the scene. He's been writing his own ticket and ducking tough fights his entire career. His most impressive wins were against Diego Corrales and Zab Judah. Floyd has the talent to beat anyone, but not the heart or the balls. This is why so many people dislike him. For him to mention his own name in the same sentence as Robinson, Leonard and Ali is a joke. They fought everyone and anyone, no excuses. The arrogance is simply too much for most respectable fans.
But yet he still sells a crapload of PPVs. And the more that people hate him, the more PPVs he'll sell because his haters are anxious to see him finally lose. If people don't like his opponents, they can do something about it; vote with their wallets and don't buy his PPVs. If the PPV numbers start to look bad then at some point HBO is gonna step in and put the hammer down. They'll force into certain fights if he wants for them to buy and air his bouts.
Quote:
Sure, I am laying the groundwork. If Manny goes on to fight three more tough opponents and mixes it up in some battles, it takes it's toll on a fighter. They age much faster. They slow down a step. Or, perhaps he's just waiting for Manny to lose so he can say "See, he's not so great, now I don't need to fight him". I know his game and so do most boxing analysts, broadcasters, and fans.
Sure it may be a ploy, it may be some gamesmanship on Floyd's part. However, it doesn't seem like it will be a problem. You've already dismissed Shane so that shouldn't take much out of him. Even if he stops ducking JMM, you've already dismissed him as well, so no problem there. Who's left? Not much unless he were to stay at 140 or someone from 140 came up (Khan, Bradley, Alexander, etc.). There's Andre Berto, but while I like Berto, I don't know if he's done enough to warrant St. Manny granting him a fight.
Quote:
I was going to offer you a shred of credibility until you said the Klits are talented. It's because the HW division is so awful that they can look even remotely competitive. A prime Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield or Tyson would have ended their careers long ago. If Wlad can soundly defeat Haye, I'll take my hat off to him, but even that isn't saying a whole lot.
Can't speak to Bowe (whom I've always thought was a bit overrated), Holyfield or Tyson. However, Vitali was giving Lewis all he could handle and then some before that nasty cut caused a stoppage. He was ahead on all three scorecards when it was stopped and had wobbled Lennox a couple of times in the bout. It's also may be a bit telling that he chose to retire rather than grant Vitali the rematch that he deserved. I don't think very much of David Haye. I don't think that his ability matches his mouth. Personally, I hope that Wlad doesn't just beat him, I hope he humiliates him.
Quote:
Talk about an annoying fanbase, did you hear the obnoxious noise coming from the crown during the Khan fight? Note to his fans--it's not a soccer game. At least Hatton's fans didn't show up with airhorns. If I were sitting in front of Khan's fans and they were blowing that thing in my ear I think I would have lost it.
Yes, it was incredibly annoying even watching it on TV. Hatton's backers had those damned drums when he fought. I don't why the hell the British boxing fans have such annoying habits. I'd have been highly peeved if one of those jackwagons would have been behind me with that crap.
Shane also asked for a fight with Mayweather since the start of each of their careers...Floyd waited until there was little or no risk involved to take the fight on his terms. Contrary to what you believe, Floyd does not want to fight Manny. That's already been established through actions, which speak much louder than words.
Not so sure if Floyd does not want the fight after he agreed to all the things Roach and Manny asked of him. Floyd just asked for a random blood test and Manny and Roach keep stalling. A random blood test Floyd is willing to take as well with no problem what so ever. Everything has been agreed even if it goes against Floyd, the one thing he asks for is too much to ask? It works for both. Keep the sport clean.
JackTheRipper,
I can imagine that once Pac loses or retires, you won’t see those fans anymore. You have to understand that having a successful boxer like him come out of the Philippines is every once in a life time so the hype can be understandable.
Now Manny will fight another fighter that Floyd has beaten and going downhill.
And yet when did St. Manny start getting some mainstream appeal? After he fought...De La Hoya. Then he fought Hatton. Now he's about to fight Mosley. It's also interesting that you dismiss JMM, but St. Manny has been ducking him since he got that bogus decision back in 2008. It's funny how similar their recent resumés look, but somehow Floyd gets denigrated and St. Manny is all of that. Why? Because he beat Clottey whom he never hurt, but Joshua just refused to fire back? Or because he beat up on MargoCheato who didn't have the benefit of illegal handwraps, was available to be hit as always and slower than ever? There was Cotto, but almost everyone agrees that he wasn't the same after being battered by the MargoCheato.
Can't speak to Bowe (whom I've always thought was a bit overrated), Holyfield or Tyson. However, Vitali was giving Lewis all he could handle and then some before that nasty cut caused a stoppage. He was ahead on all three scorecards when it was stopped and had wobbled Lennox a couple of times in the bout. It's also may be a bit telling that he chose to retire rather than grant Vitali the rematch that he deserved. I don't think very much of David Haye. I don't think that his ability matches his mouth. Personally, I hope that Wlad doesn't just beat him, I hope he humiliates him.
Manny actually received worldwide recognition after his first win over Barrera. I was a Barrera fan back then and didn't enjoy seeing him lose to Manny. Slowly, Manny gained my respect, so it's not as though I suddenly jumped on the Manny wagon. I watched him and waited until I felt he proved himself in the ring against Barrera, Morales, and JMM. He's not ducking JMM. That's JMM talking out of desperation for another big money fight. There's more money to be made fighting other opponents. Perhaps JMM will get another shot at him, but I really don't think he'll beat Manny or give him as tough a fight as he did previously.
Vitali was coming on against Lewis but Lewis was already at the end of his career. I'm not sure if Vitali lasts as long as he did if they fight that fight 5 years earlier. While I was never a big fan of Lewis, I had tremendous respect for him because he fought everyone there was to fight. He tried to make a fight with Bowe who ducked him, and he vindicated himself after both his KO losses by knocking out Rahman and McCall. He had a lot of heart, he just knew when it was time to hang it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onihC
Not so sure if Floyd does not want the fight after he agreed to all the things Roach and Manny asked of him. Floyd just asked for a random blood test and Manny and Roach keep stalling. A random blood test Floyd is willing to take as well with no problem what so ever. Everything has been agreed even if it goes against Floyd, the one thing he asks for is too much to ask? It works for both. Keep the sport clean.
JackTheRipper,
I can imagine that once Pac loses or retires, you won’t see those fans anymore. You have to understand that having a successful boxer like him come out of the Philippines is every once in a life time so the hype can be understandable.
Now Manny will fight another fighter that Floyd has beaten and going downhill.
We've already been through this...Manny agreed to all terms, Floyd got silent.
Not only has Manny beaten all of the same opponents as Floyd, he destroyed them. That speaks volumes to Floyd. His trainer/uncle is noticeably concerned and fears Manny.
We've already been through this...Manny agreed to all terms, Floyd got silent
Even on the last 24/7 Manny and his team clearly said they WON'T take the random blood tests unless they get a break for weeks before the fight. So after all, they are trying to avoid the random blood tests. First Manny says he's afraid of needles. Ironic considering how he has all these tattoos. Then he said he was supersticious. And the excuses continued just like when he lost against Morales and blamed the loss on his socks.
I have no doubt that Manny can beat Floyd just as Floyd can beat him as well. That is why its frustrating that this fight is not being signed yet.
This is old news and has already been discussed. Shane asked to fight Mayweather in January as opposed to Novemeber, basically asking for a two month extension and Floyd declined so he can sign a fight with De La Hoya. FLoyd was ducking Shane back when they were both lightweights.
It's no secret that Floyd likes to fight oppenents who are past their prime or worn down from a series of tough fights. What do you think he's doing now? He's waiting for Manny to get tenderized from taking on tough fights while Floyd gets his beauty rest and fights much smaller opponents who can't hurt him like Marquez or middle aged security guards.
I don't believe any of this and I find that it is pure conjecture and nonsense. All of these men are fighters and they don't duck anyone. I give them all credit and matches are made or lost depending on the terms of the contract negotiators.
Floyd didn't duck Shane to fight DLH anymore than Shane rose up in weight to avoid fighting Floyd. Waiting for Manny to get "tenderized"? Absurd.
I don't believe any of this and I find that it is pure conjecture and nonsense. All of these men are fighters and they don't duck anyone. I give them all credit and matches are made or lost depending on the terms of the contract negotiators.
Floyd didn't duck Shane to fight DLH anymore than Shane rose up in weight to avoid fighting Floyd. Waiting for Manny to get "tenderized"? Absurd.
Ok, I will take the bait. Give us one fight where Floyd fought an obvious challenger. "Obvious"meaning Cotto, Williams, Manny, S. Martinez, etc...on and on. Floyd will not fight those who are just as quick or the possibility of losing is strong. Floyd had problems with Juda, when he sucked.
Look, I understand the steroid concerns with Manny. Matter of fact, I am very suspicious myself, but why can't he fight the others listed above...because he is afraid. Years back, I WAS Floyd's biggest fan. I thought he was the best and unbeatable. Later, we notice that he ducks the obvious challengers, then and there is where he lost my respect. He is a bum and my opinion will not change until he steps upto the plate.
Everyone loves Ali because he fought all comers. For some reason, Floyd thinks an undefeated record with garner him all the accolades. In reality, he will look like a biatch.
Ok, I will take the bait. Give us one fight where Floyd fought an obvious challenger. "Obvious"meaning Cotto, Williams, Manny, S. Martinez, etc...on and on. Floyd will not fight those who are just as quick or the possibility of losing is strong. Floyd had problems with Juda, when he sucked.
Look, I understand the steroid concerns with Manny. Matter of fact, I am very suspicious myself, but why can't he fight the others listed above...because he is afraid. Years back, I WAS Floyd's biggest fan. I thought he was the best and unbeatable. Later, we notice that he ducks the obvious challengers, then and there is where he lost my respect. He is a bum and my opinion will not change until he steps upto the plate.
Everyone loves Ali because he fought all comers. For some reason, Floyd thinks an undefeated record with garner him all the accolades. In reality, he will look like a biatch.
"Take the bait" - I don't understand what you mean by this.
All Floyd's fights are against obvious challengers. Just because some people don't subjectively feel that the challenger is good enough doesn't subtract from Floyd's ability to win fights no matter who is challenger. Because you don't know Floyd and are not privy to any of the negotiations, you can't say that he is "ducking." This is ridiculous and tired. He's unbeaten not because his opponents are hand-selected, but because he has been better. Believe what you want.
So you were Floyd's biggest fan and now you're disappointed with his selection of opponents. He lost your respect. Who cares? Plenty of other great fights happening. Focus on them and enjoy the sport.
About Ali, not everyone loves him. Great heavyweight, but he has been criticized because it appeared like many of his opponents were overmatched when they stepped into the ring with him. They were either too slow, too mechanical, not strong enough, or just not talented enough to compete. He fought an old Archie Moore and predicted he would take him out in four because Moore presented no challenge and Ali could beat him at will. Same with any of the fighters he fought where he predicted the round beforehand. Many felt that he lost to Doug Jones and that Liston threw the second fight. Many think that Norton beat Ali three times, not just once. Many criticize him for taking the powerful Foreman to Zaire where he could fight him under questionable standards such as loose ropes, and slam him for not giving Foreman a rematch in the states. After all, he fought Frazier and Norton three times, why not Foreman? Many criticize him for fighting "bums", and losing to Leon Spinks. Whatever the case, Ali's place in fame is solidified despite the criticism. Same with Floyd.
dunno if you've seen this BUT......... here goes...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes.
C'mon
