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Agreed. Joe Louis, Ali, Frazier, Rocky Marciano would have beat the hell out of Tyson among some others that I left out. I consider Tyson like Ronda Rousy. Early on, they had fighters intimidated, because they were fighting with house money. Easy opponents and there was a fear, and awe. But, once somebody wasn't afraid anymore and withstood the pressure, Rousey and Tyson folded.
Tyson was a bully, and thrived off of the novelty that he was indestructible. However, once a fighter stood in there with him and wasn't afraid, he crumbled. In essence, he was a bit of a coward himself. Very overrated, but at the same time interesting.
He was given all of the tools, beyond height, but he was a coward deep down. I hate saying that because he was so very talented and I've seen all of his fights. He was something to watch. But don't kid yourself, he was overrated.
Agreed. Joe Louis, Ali, Frazier, Rocky Marciano would have beat the hell out of Tyson among some others that I left out. I consider Tyson like Ronda Rousy. Early on, they had fighters intimidated, because they were fighting with house money. Easy opponents and there was a fear, and awe. But, once somebody wasn't afraid anymore and withstood the pressure, Rousey and Tyson folded.
Tyson was a bully, and thrived off of the novelty that he was indestructible. However, once a fighter stood in there with him and wasn't afraid, he crumbled. In essence, he was a bit of a coward himself. Very overrated, but at the same time interesting.
He was given all of the tools, beyond height, but he was a coward deep down. I hate saying that because he was so very talented and I've seen all of his fights. He was something to watch. But don't kid yourself, he was overrated.
To call Tyson a coward is absolutely unfair and untrue. He was a 5'10" heavyweight who overachieved. He did the best he could and was knocked out by a giant Lennox Lewis - think about that, the size difference was more than a lightweight fighting a middleweight. Tyson pretty much always was the smaller man in the ring.
You can call him overrated, but a coward is just making yourself look stupid.
To call Tyson a coward is absolutely unfair and untrue. He was a 5'10" heavyweight who overachieved. He did the best he could and was knocked out by a giant Lennox Lewis - think about that, the size difference was more than a lightweight fighting a middleweight. Tyson pretty much always was the smaller man in the ring.
You can call him overrated, but a coward is just making yourself look stupid.
Cowards come in all shapes and sizes. Remember Tyson biting Holyfields ear in the ring, because he wanted out? That's a coward. When the novelty was over, who could he beat? Yes, for his height he overachieved. But that doesn't make him close to the best. Early in his career, he beat complete bums. Name a real complete fighter that he beat. Again, I seen all of his fights. Those guys were beat before they got in the ring with him.
Later in his career, (when no one was afraid anymore) he beat no one. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. You don't like it, to freaking bad. You can attack my opinion, but don't start attacking me. Being fast and having power is not everything. He lacked heart. Put the heart of Ali in him, and now you're talking. Ali was the best. If Tyson had half the heart that Ali had, then he would have been a top five fighter.
But there will always be a novelty, because of many of those early knockouts. He was entertaining as hell. I'll give him that. Box office, and there's no denying that. And to give him credit, we have yet to see a fighter as box office/ entertaining as him since his era. And it has been a long time since his prime.
Last edited by supermanpansy; 07-21-2019 at 10:30 PM..
Cowards don't get in a boxing or mma ring, or on a rugby field, or on a football field at professional levels. We must have different definitions of the word. I'd call Tyson biting Holyfield's ears being a terrible loser - in fact I think he should have been arrested for it, I consider it a criminal act. Cowardice has nothing to do with it.
Tyson is overrated. He fought scrubs. Not his fault but the hand he was dealt most of his career. He lost every fight against quality opposition.
His opponents were definitely carefully selected. I think guys like Holyfield, Foreman & Lennox Lewis all beat prime 80s-era Tyson.
Teddy Atlas spent a lot of time around Tyson when he was coming up and obviously has seen Mike fight plenty. He basically said that Mike was a bully and that the key to beating Mike was to stand up to him, take his punishment and then return by hitting him right in the mouth. Teddy said that when better fighters stood up to Mike and couldn't physically be dominated or overwhelmed by him, he would mentally crumble.
Essentially, Mike got frustrated in fights where he couldn't knock a guy out early and had to really go long and win a fight on points. Actually, I don't think he ever had a fight go to a decision - he either knocked the guy out, got knocked out himself or got DQ'd. In the end, the guys that I listed wouldn't have been bullied or physically dominated by Tyson and could have taken shots from him, while returning big shots of their own.
His opponents were definitely carefully selected. I think guys like Holyfield, Foreman & Lennox Lewis all beat prime 80s-era Tyson.
Teddy Atlas spent a lot of time around Tyson when he was coming up and obviously has seen Mike fight plenty. He basically said that Mike was a bully and that the key to beating Mike was to stand up to him, take his punishment and then return by hitting him right in the mouth. Teddy said that when better fighters stood up to Mike and couldn't physically be dominated or overwhelmed by him, he would mentally crumble.
Essentially, Mike got frustrated in fights where he couldn't knock a guy out early and had to really go long and win a fight on points. Actually, I don't think he ever had a fight go to a decision - he either knocked the guy out, got knocked out himself or got DQ'd. In the end, the guys that I listed wouldn't have been bullied or physically dominated by Tyson and could have taken shots from him, while returning big shots of their own.
I think this is an unfairly harsh way to characterize Tyson, and Atlas is a real a$$hole for saying it. Tyson gave up huge height, weight and reach pretty much every fight. Of course he's going to use every trick in his arsenal, including intimidation - he had a big size disadvantage against most of his opponents. He didn't "crumble", he lost just like all other fighters lose (with the exception of biting Evander's ears, that was just f'd up sportsmanship). I've always thought there should be a super heavyweight class like in the olympics, matching a 215 lb Tyson with a 250 lb Lewis for example is really ridiculous. Same with Frazer facing Foreman, these 2 guys simply don't belong in the same weight class - but the heavyweight division just accepts everyone over 200 lbs with no limit, which is imo idiotic. Tyson's ok in my book and I have huge respect for him and his boxing achievements, although I agree with you about those you said would beat him in his prime.
Tyson's prime really ended when he parted ways with Kevin Rooney, which was pre-Douglas. But he was legitimate before that, though with limited experience. Ali would have beat him. I don't know about either Foreman or Frazier - Foreman was a lot bigger, but an inside fight would have favored Tyson. Prime Holmes would have been a tougher match-up for Tyson.
I'd add a prime Riddick Bowe. 7" height advantage, 10" reach advantage, 50 lb advantage. As unfair as this comparison is when factoring in the sheer size difference I don't see a prime Tyson standing much chance. Same with both Klitschko, probably. Too much size given away coupled with not enough tomato can lack of talent. But pound for pound, Tyson may be the best heavyweight in history - certainly somewhere at the top of the heap.
Last edited by duke944; 07-22-2019 at 05:42 PM..
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