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Old 12-04-2009, 11:04 AM
 
31 posts, read 17,739 times
Reputation: 21

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
lmao this is laughable.
i try to leave you boxing apologists to your boxing board but this is just down right funny.

trailer park white fighters? like rich franklin? who has a math degree, and was a teacher? or how about cro cop? he was an anti-terrorist police officer and a member of croatian parliament. amir sodallah was a surgical technologist. houston alexaner was a radio DJ, and is still a rapper (hip hop artist, but us white boys dont like them black guys). forrest griffin was a cop. three of the TUF 10 fighters are former NFL players. randy couture spent 6 yrs in the army and was an olympic alternate.

here how many boxers can boast edumacationin like the mma guys?
Jeff Monson - PhD in Psychology
Terry Martin - studying to be a PhD in Psychology
Rich Franklin - masters in education, bachelor's in mathematics
Carlos Newton - pre-medicine and is a linguist
Chuck Liddell - bachelor's degree in accounting
Tank Abbott - Bachelors in History.
Roger Huerta - working on his masters right now
Randy Couture - degree in german


boxing fans MUST feel threatened by MMA to always continue to make excuses and call mma fighters names so to speak.
I didn't say the fighters were idiots. I said the fans were.

And who cares if they used to be cops, NFL players or homeless men who beat up on other bums like that mega-star Kimbo Slice? Plenty of WWE stars used to be NFL players or Olympic Wrestlers too. Know who else used to be in the NFL? Rae Carruth!

Plus, I said that average middle class white people have a chance in MMA, which is true. How many tubby white guys do you see competing for titles in Boxing? How about MMA? When I go to people's houses and they are watching MMA, nearly everyone watching is white...boxing draws a far more diverse crowd.

Liddell is a megastar, right? Well, how can such a big star be knocked out in more than 20% of his matches?

Boxing has tradition, history, and it's not all hype.
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:23 AM
 
1,196 posts, read 2,676,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentFuturama View Post
I didn't say the fighters were idiots. I said the fans were.

And who cares if they used to be cops, NFL players or homeless men who beat up on other bums like that mega-star Kimbo Slice? Plenty of WWE stars used to be NFL players or Olympic Wrestlers too. Know who else used to be in the NFL? Rae Carruth!

Plus, I said that average middle class white people have a chance in MMA, which is true. How many tubby white guys do you see competing for titles in Boxing? How about MMA? When I go to people's houses and they are watching MMA, nearly everyone watching is white...boxing draws a far more diverse crowd.

Liddell is a megastar, right? Well, how can such a big star be knocked out in more than 20% of his matches?

Boxing has tradition, history, and it's not all hype.
I think race is a cop out, and probably has no point in this discussion... who cares which race watches either sport more than the other, what matters is the quality of the fights/fighters, and being honest MMA has fallen off a little bit, as boxing is making more super matches, but, can you honestly say that MMA wasn't a bigger draw the last few years?

The MMA under cards destroy the usual boxing under cards, even though the quality of the fights have slipped, and by using Kimbo Slice in a discussion of quality MMA fighters is the equivalent of throwing around Hasim Rahman or even Roy Jones as legitimate boxers, comparing apples and oranges

True, the MMA crowd is the old WWE crowd, and a lot of their fighters were just removed from a truck stop bar, but that doesn't mean that most of the fights are weak, or the guys are not tough enough for boxing, maybe not disciplined enough, but not talented enough, nahhh
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Old 12-04-2009, 11:50 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,673,513 times
Reputation: 1985
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentFuturama View Post
I didn't say the fighters were idiots. I said the fans were.

And who cares if they used to be cops, NFL players or homeless men who beat up on other bums like that mega-star Kimbo Slice? Plenty of WWE stars used to be NFL players or Olympic Wrestlers too. Know who else used to be in the NFL? Rae Carruth!

Plus, I said that average middle class white people have a chance in MMA, which is true. How many tubby white guys do you see competing for titles in Boxing? How about MMA? When I go to people's houses and they are watching MMA, nearly everyone watching is white...boxing draws a far more diverse crowd.

Liddell is a megastar, right? Well, how can such a big star be knocked out in more than 20% of his matches?

Boxing has tradition, history, and it's not all hype.

you actually DID say the fighters where "average low class fighters out of a trailer park". you didnt speak to the fans you spoke of the fighters. damn man go read your own posts before replying.

holy crap, have you guys EVER trained in anything other then boxing? have you actually watched and PAID ATTENTION to an mma fight? a lot of their fighters where just removed from a truck stop bar? that is borderline as dumb as the race comments.

Quote:
highly skilled and legitimate blackbelt like a prime Master Tatsuo Shimabuku or someone of his ability, and these MMA guys would get their eyes handed to them before they even had a chance to see their opponent.
lmao, better go to blockbuster and rent some ufc 1-10. back before they made rule and the fights had no time limit, no rules. back when royce gracie was grabbing kimo's pony tail. back when steve jennum was taking down, mounting pounding on and eventually arm barring your boxer.
any style of martial art that teaches kata (forms) above randori (free sparing) is WORTHLESS! even some that teach randori are worthless as well. aikido anyone? go to youtube and look up some helio gracie fights. like his near 4 hour fight with no rules in 1955. how about all the challenge matches the gracies fought.

you guys really should take your heads out of the sand. open your eyes, the statements you are making HAVE to be jokes, please tell me they are.

let me guess this guy could kill us all with his dim mak right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: South Fla
9,644 posts, read 9,052,086 times
Reputation: 1942
Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather JR Agree to Fight in March 2010

Ringside Report "The Heart Of Boxing" (http://www.ringsidereport.com/rsr/news.php?readmore=2423 - broken link)
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,411 posts, read 18,887,675 times
Reputation: 18541
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
lmao, better go to blockbuster and rent some ufc 1-10. back before they made rule and the fights had no time limit, no rules. back when royce gracie was grabbing kimo's pony tail. back when steve jennum was taking down, mounting pounding on and eventually arm barring your boxer.
any style of martial art that teaches kata (forms) above randori (free sparing) is WORTHLESS! even some that teach randori are worthless as well. aikido anyone? go to youtube and look up some helio gracie fights. like his near 4 hour fight with no rules in 1955. how about all the challenge matches the gracies fought.
That is part of the point I'm trying to drive home here. When MMA first came on the scene there was plenty of talent and legitimate martial artists like the Gracies. But with the additional rules that have been added, they have neutralized the game and tied the hands of great fighters in favor of giving the rest of the bunch a competitive chance. They want to hype the loud in your face badass image of guys like Slice, Shamrock, and Lesner, in favor of the more reserved Gracies and Severns of the early days.
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Old 12-04-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,673,513 times
Reputation: 1985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
That is part of the point I'm trying to drive home here. When MMA first came on the scene there was plenty of talent and legitimate martial artists like the Gracies. But with the additional rules that have been added, they have neutralized the game and tied the hands of great fighters in favor of giving the rest of the bunch a competitive chance. They want to hype the loud in your face badass image of guys like Slice, Shamrock, and Lesner, in favor of the more reserved Gracies and Severns of the early days.

blame the boxing commissions. it was the NJ boxing commissions who put the current rules in effect. nsac adopted about 90% of the nj rules and look at what we have. so many boxing apologists talk about how the ufc did this or that, when in all actuality it was the boxing people trying to do it to mma. the hype you speak of is purely dana white and the fertitas (and those trying to keep up with him). i am no way a fan of dana white. there are a ton of pure fighters who dont fit your "hype loud" mold. randy, GSP, anderson silva, machida......... the list goes on and on. any one of those guys i listed would DESTROY ANY boxer if they met in a bar or where ever. it is the rules of boxing that gives the boxer a chance against these guys, not the boxers skills.

and who was talking about cauliflower ears? this person has NEVER wrestled. you dont get them from a few fights, you get them from YEARS of hard training. (most wrestlers wear ear protection these days so it doesnt happen as much in college or high school) i suggest taking the 14 oz pillows off your hands and try to stay on your feet.

and to the "human **** fighting" crowd i ask, how many deaths?
Quote:
Boxing Deaths from 1998 until 2006 MMA Death Rates from 1998-2006
1998 = 2 Deaths in the ring 1998 = 1 Death in the ring
1999 = 6 Deaths in the ring 1999 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2000 = 10 Deaths in the ring 2000 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2001 = 12 Deaths in the ring 2001 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2002 = 10 Deaths in the ring 2002 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2003 = 10 Deaths in the ring 2003 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2004 = 9 Deaths in the ring 2004 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2005 = 7 Deaths in the ring 2005 = 0 Deaths in the ring
2006 = 4 Deaths in the Ring 2006 = 0 Deaths in the ring

Total deaths in the ring for between the period of 1998 and now:
BOXING 70 deaths
MMA 1 Death

Let it also be noted that the one MMA death occurred in Russia to a man who had previous injuries and was said to have “blacked out” in trainings before the match in Russia.

Mixed Martial Arts has come along way since 1998. The rules have become increasingly more protective of the fighters. It also must be said that there have been a lot more boxing matches than MMA matches during this time period.

During 2002 and 2003, the Nevada State Athletic Commission approved about 113 bouts per month between male professional boxers, and another 2.5 bouts per month between female professional boxers. For source documentation, see BoxRec Boxing Records or Business & Industry - Nevada Athletic Commission.

Between January 1979 and May 2003, there were 281 months. This period was chosen so that it would be directly comparable to Original Toughman. During those 281 months, Nevada reported the deaths of five male boxers due to ring injuries. [EN4] Thus, the death rate for male professional boxers in Nevada appears to be about 79 deaths per million participants (5 deaths/[281 months x {113 bouts per month x 2 fighters per bout}] x 1,000,000).

It is very difficult to find out how many fights have occurred in MMA since its inception, but we can conclude that there has only been 1 death.
the number of MMA deaths has risen by 100%, to 2 deaths BUT teh 1st death was a man who was NOT cleared by a doctor and fought any way, and the second was here in houston. he was hit, and KOed and when falling he hit his head on an area of the cage that was not property padded. (i was at that fight, a "renegades" fight put on by saul soliz)
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Tha 6th Bourough
3,633 posts, read 5,300,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Actually I think boxing has answered the call and stepped up in the last two or three years and making the fights that the fans want to see. Matter of fact, I'd say the hype has died down some with MMA/UFC. Many of these guys have been exposed as the inferior fighters that they are. They hype guys like Kimbo Slice and Brock Lesner for their size, strength and image, but they are more flash than substance. Boxing always has and always will be the real deal. I thank MMA/UFC for rising in popularity and slick marketing, because it forced boxing to step up and make better and more competitive fights.


Do you mean the Brock Lesnar that is the World Heavyweight UFC champion?...or another Brock Lesnar?
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Old 12-04-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,411 posts, read 18,887,675 times
Reputation: 18541
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
any one of those guys i listed would DESTROY ANY boxer if they met in a bar or where ever. it is the rules of boxing that gives the boxer a chance against these guys, not the boxers skills.

and who was talking about cauliflower ears? this person has NEVER wrestled. you dont get them from a few fights, you get them from YEARS of hard training. (most wrestlers wear ear protection these days so it doesnt happen as much in college or high school) i suggest taking the 14 oz pillows off your hands and try to stay on your feet.

and to the "human **** fighting" crowd i ask, how many deaths?

the number of MMA deaths has risen by 100%, to 2 deaths BUT teh 1st death was a man who was NOT cleared by a doctor and fought any way, and the second was here in houston. he was hit, and KOed and when falling he hit his head on an area of the cage that was not property padded. (i was at that fight, a "renegades" fight put on by saul soliz)
Which goes to prove you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. A pro boxer doesn't need to hide behind the rules of boxing in order to be effective in a fight outside the ring. To make that claim just screams of ignorance and bias towards the MMA fighters, who for most part, are not proficient in any one thing. If Bernard Hopkins and Chuck Liddell or Randy Couture ever met in an alley, I'll put my money on Hopkins coming out alive, unharmed, and without breaking a sweat. Not sure why all MMA fans think that it's so easy to sweep a boxer off his feet and get him on the ground.

There are more deaths in boxing because boxers hit harder and more often. The average MMA fight is 3.5 minutes of grappling on the mat for every 5 minute round. Yawn....zzzzzzzzzz! There are more KO's in boxing than in MMA hence the higher mortality rate. A majority of those deaths are typically overseas in Southeast Asia or other under-developed countries where things aren't regulated as well. You have fighters with 50 fights fighting guys with 8 fights, or fighters who have a 100 unsanctioned fights as an amateur making a pro debut claiming much less experience. Fighters who can't pass physicals can get cleared in other states or countries. By the way, you can get cauliflower ears from just one punch, it doesn't take a career of pounding to happen. The average MMA guys with 20 fights look like the Class C boxers of the 1950's who had over a 100 fights.

Those 14 oz. pillows will knock out any MMA fighter you can name. The gloves aren't designed to protect the opponents face, they were designed to protect the fighters hands. Why do you think Dana White won't allow any of his UFC fighters to get into a boxing ring? He knows they will get KO'd in one round and exposed as glorified brawlers. I'll admit that a top MMA fighter will beat a boxer in the octagon, but ONLY if he can take the fight to the ground, otherwise it's lights out Silva!

Getting closer on topic, I think the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight will blow away any PPV buys that MMA/UFC could ever produce, much like most of the other top selling boxing matches in recent years. Fans appreciate quality and skill over flash and mismatches.
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Old 12-04-2009, 04:20 PM
 
12 posts, read 7,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Which goes to prove you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. A pro boxer doesn't need to hide behind the rules of boxing in order to be effective in a fight outside the ring. To make that claim just screams of ignorance and bias towards the MMA fighters, who for most part, are not proficient in any one thing. If Bernard Hopkins and Chuck Liddell or Randy Couture ever met in an alley, I'll put my money on Hopkins coming out alive, unharmed, and without breaking a sweat. Not sure why all MMA fans think that it's so easy to sweep a boxer off his feet and get him on the ground.

There are more deaths in boxing because boxers hit harder and more often. The average MMA fight is 3.5 minutes of grappling on the mat for every 5 minute round. Yawn....zzzzzzzzzz! There are more KO's in boxing than in MMA hence the higher mortality rate. A majority of those deaths are typically overseas in Southeast Asia or other under-developed countries where things aren't regulated as well. You have fighters with 50 fights fighting guys with 8 fights, or fighters who have a 100 unsanctioned fights as an amateur making a pro debut claiming much less experience. Fighters who can't pass physicals can get cleared in other states or countries. By the way, you can get cauliflower ears from just one punch, it doesn't take a career of pounding to happen. The average MMA guys with 20 fights look like the Class C boxers of the 1950's who had over a 100 fights.

Those 14 oz. pillows will knock out any MMA fighter you can name. The gloves aren't designed to protect the opponents face, they were designed to protect the fighters hands. Why do you think Dana White won't allow any of his UFC fighters to get into a boxing ring? He knows they will get KO'd in one round and exposed as glorified brawlers. I'll admit that a top MMA fighter will beat a boxer in the octagon, but ONLY if he can take the fight to the ground, otherwise it's lights out Silva!

Getting closer on topic, I think the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight will blow away any PPV buys that MMA/UFC could ever produce, much like most of the other top selling boxing matches in recent years. Fans appreciate quality and skill over flash and mismatches.
I agree with everything you said.
I wont bring up race because it plays a role in both sports, but I will agree about the quality of the fighters and the "dark alley" scenario.
The reason why I can't stand UFC and MMA in general is that it's two guys in tight spandex, usually one lying on his back with his legs in the air, rolling around on the floor together for 4 minutes a round. That's why I think it's lame. That and the incredible hype behind each mediocre fighter.
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Old 12-04-2009, 08:15 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,673,513 times
Reputation: 1985
Quote:
Which goes to prove you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. A pro boxer doesn't need to hide behind the rules of boxing in order to be effective in a fight outside the ring. To make that claim just screams of ignorance and bias towards the MMA fighters, who for most part, are not proficient in any one thing. If Bernard Hopkins and Chuck Liddell or Randy Couture ever met in an alley, I'll put my money on Hopkins coming out alive, unharmed, and without breaking a sweat. Not sure why all MMA fans think that it's so easy to sweep a boxer off his feet and get him on the ground
the only shot hopkins has would be against chuck and simply because chuck would try to KO him and get hit in his now glass chin. randy is going to bum rush bernard with his head covered, put hopkins against the wall where his punches would lose all power (you need more then your arms to throw power), with his wrestling he would EASILY put hopkin on the ground. the same would happen in a cage. see boxers CLINCH almost from the get go of a fight some times, where is your boxer going to get rest? running away? now someone like anderson, or gsp would take their time and pick your legs apart. you cant throw power with your legs gone. my legs are longer then your arms, i can reach you better then you can reach me, and when you try to close the distance to take that kick away, you get taken down. this is if you dont get a high kick to your head. see a guy like anderson can let lose with his legs because he doesnt have to worry about a boxer trying to take him down.
case in point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDjE4BywrE4

Quote:
There are more deaths in boxing because boxers hit harder and more often. The average MMA fight is 3.5 minutes of grappling on the mat for every 5 minute round. Yawn....zzzzzzzzzz! There are more KO's in boxing than in MMA hence the higher mortality rate. A majority of those deaths are typically overseas in Southeast Asia or other under-developed countries where things aren't regulated as well. You have fighters with 50 fights fighting guys with 8 fights, or fighters who have a 100 unsanctioned fights as an amateur making a pro debut claiming much less experience. Fighters who can't pass physicals can get cleared in other states or countries. By the way, you can get cauliflower ears from just one punch, it doesn't take a career of pounding to happen. The average MMA guys with 20 fights look like the Class C boxers of the 1950's who had over a 100 fights.
the only real fact you stated in this, boxers get hit more often. by the way, those deaths i posted, where USA. yes you can get jacked up ears from a single punch BUT generally speaking it is a case of built up over time. (you prove my point in your argument so no point in furthering that)

check out about the 2:45 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba9Qm...eature=channel

the only place i think we REMOTELY agree, boxers would more then likely beat 99% of all mma fighters IN BOXING RULES. now boxers hide behind the rules, and the fact they THINK they make more money as a boxer so they dont want to fight mma fighters. case in point, dana white offered motormouth mayweather 3 mil of HIS OWN MONEY, plus a salary, PLUS a LARGE ppv % to fight sean sherk, who offered to fight mayweather FOR FREE! now mayweather said why would i take that fight when i make 25 mil a fight. look at the numbers, 3-4 mil in dana and salary, plus a large % (more then 50%??) of what would be THE BIGGEST by far ppv event EVER. all you boxing apologists would watch so you could see if your right, all of the mma fans would watch to see if we are right, and everyone else who dont care would watch because of the hype from both sides.

the big draws in boxing will not take the fights because they dont want to be proven wrong. if they where so confident, take the fight, PROVE you are better then mma fighters. until you take the challenge you will always be called out as weak. as for dana not letting his fighters box, he is worried about them getting hurt, its just smart business. just like one of the reasons he could not sign fedor, fedor wanted to fight combat sambo but dana said "your my cash cow i cant have you getting hurt somewhere else." thats like don king letting mike tyson compete in a kick boxing tournament.

just a little ufc PPV history since you brought up mma vs boxing ppv.
Quote:
Sports by the Numbers MMA: UFC Pay-per-view Numbers: Feeding the Monster (http://www.sportsbythenumbersmma.com/2009/08/ufc-pay-per-view-numbers-feeding.html - broken link)
Quote:
Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), a relative newcomer on the pay-per-view scene, "matched the once-dominant World Wrestling Entertainment Inc. in pay-per-view revenues during 2006 and surpassed boxing titan HBO. The three companies make up the bulk of the pay-per-view business."[cite this quote] According to Deana Myers, a senior analyst at Kagan Research LLC (which tracks the PPV industry), "UFC has reinvigorated the pay-per-view category."[7]
that was 3 yrs ago and ufc has only gotten stronger. try again.

Quote:
The reason why I can't stand UFC and MMA in general is that it's two guys in tight spandex, usually one lying on his back with his legs in the air, rolling around on the floor together for 4 minutes a round. That's why I think it's lame. That and the incredible hype behind each mediocre fighter.
apparently you dont watch anything but boxing. very few fighters wear "spandex" and the few who do are mostly kick boxers who dont go to the ground buch. the rest wear MUCH longer baggier shorts then boxers do. and speaking of over-hype, why is it that showtime and hbo CONSTANTLY have their hype machine rolling for their fights, i mean for MONTHS ahead of a fight? hell the pacman vs cotto propaganda show was on about 3-4 days ago, didnt that fight already happen.
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