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So if you could make matches between the greatest fighters of all time in ntheir primes to include some of today's top talent, which matches would you make? Here are some of mine:
How 'bout Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong? LaMotta vs. Leonard, Hearns, or Duran? Ali vs. Tyson, Marciano or 1930's Joe Louis? And just to throw out one that I never hear, how 'bout Ali II vs. Ali I? Very few fight fans ever give this question much credibility, but I think that it's at least conceivable that the post lay-off Ali was a bigger, tougher, smarter fighter. He'd lost some speed, a lot of mobility, but I can see Ali II taking out Ali I. Any fight fans agree with this very unpopular position?
How 'bout Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong? LaMotta vs. Leonard, Hearns, or Duran? Ali vs. Tyson, Marciano or 1930's Joe Louis? And just to throw out one that I never hear, how 'bout Ali II vs. Ali I? Very few fight fans ever give this question much credibility, but I think that it's at least conceivable that the post lay-off Ali was a bigger, tougher, smarter fighter. He'd lost some speed, a lot of mobility, but I can see Ali II taking out Ali I. Any fight fans agree with this very unpopular position?
That is a very intriguing scenario, quite thought provoking
I would have to go with Ali 1. Though Ali post layoff was a smarter fighter, Ali would have had trouble with a fleet footed boxer who would have beat him to the jab every time. A young Ali would not fall for the rope-a-dope, and he would not have been psyched out by the older Ali. I would evision a 15 round decision for the young Ali.
Mr. Humble I'm going to say something that is going to sound insane to most, but I always thought of Ali as an overrated fighter in terms of P4P greatness. He was a great heavyweight, but as a rule, most heavyweights aren't GREAT boxers, and most people don't realize just how big Ali was, he was 6'3" and averaged around 215-220, which was very close in size to George Foreman and bigger than Liston. His advantage was his quickness and solid chin along with some great marketing skills. I think Louis, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, and even Liston were better boxers. I won't do into too much on the Ali/Liston fights, that's another topic altogether. Ali made the HW fighters of the 70's, many of whom were mediocre...Lyle, Spinks, Norton, Ellis weren't all that great. He also fought a lot of guys that were much smaller than him...Quarry (2x), Patterson (2x), Blin, Ellis, as well as many of his opponents in the early part of his career. Then there were a long list of who's who opponents in between the Frazier and Holmes fights. Like I said, he was a great HW, but in a P4P comparison to the likes of Robinson, Ortiz, Duran, Leonard, Hagler, Pep, Ross etc., he wouldn't even make the top 20 in terms of greatness.
That said, I feel the Ali I would have beat the Ali II. Ali never faced a guy with his sort of quickness and speed at HW, and the faster Ali I probably would have breezed to a UD over the slower Ali II who relied heavily on his solid chin. Also, the way to beat Ali I would have been with an effective body assualt...Ali never threw body punches, he was strictly a head-hunter.
I like your other match-ups. Pep vs Armstrong, or perhaps Pep vs. Berrera, Morales, Pacquiao.
LaMotta vs. Zale was another that never happened. I would have liked to see a prime Ali vs Holmes.
Bob Foster vs Jose Torres should have happened but never did.
There is also the fogotten decade of the 60's which saw some excellent talent such as Emile Griffith, Dick Tiger, Joey Giardello, Curtis Cokes, Luis Rodriguez, George Benton, Jose Napoles, Fullmer etc. Lot's of great match-up potential between the 60's greats against the greats of the 40's, 50's, 70's, 80's and today.
Mr. Humble I'm going to say something that is going to sound insane to most, but I always thought of Ali as an overrated fighter in terms of P4P greatness. He was a great heavyweight, but as a rule, most heavyweights aren't GREAT boxers, and most people don't realize just how big Ali was, he was 6'3" and averaged around 215-220, which was very close in size to George Foreman and bigger than Liston. His advantage was his quickness and solid chin along with some great marketing skills. I think Louis, Holyfield, Charles, Walcott, and even Liston were better boxers. I won't do into too much on the Ali/Liston fights, that's another topic altogether. Ali made the HW fighters of the 70's, many of whom were mediocre...Lyle, Spinks, Norton, Ellis weren't all that great. He also fought a lot of guys that were much smaller than him...Quarry (2x), Patterson (2x), Blin, Ellis, as well as many of his opponents in the early part of his career. Then there were a long list of who's who opponents in between the Frazier and Holmes fights. Like I said, he was a great HW, but in a P4P comparison to the likes of Robinson, Ortiz, Duran, Leonard, Hagler, Pep, Ross etc., he wouldn't even make the top 20 in terms of greatness.
That said, I feel the Ali I would have beat the Ali II. Ali never faced a guy with his sort of quickness and speed at HW, and the faster Ali I probably would have breezed to a UD over the slower Ali II who relied heavily on his solid chin. Also, the way to beat Ali I would have been with an effective body assualt...Ali never threw body punches, he was strictly a head-hunter.
I like your other match-ups. Pep vs Armstrong, or perhaps Pep vs. Berrera, Morales, Pacquiao.
LaMotta vs. Zale was another that never happened. I would have liked to see a prime Ali vs Holmes.
Bob Foster vs Jose Torres should have happened but never did.
There is also the fogotten decade of the 60's which saw some excellent talent such as Emile Griffith, Dick Tiger, Joey Giardello, Curtis Cokes, Luis Rodriguez, George Benton, Jose Napoles, Fullmer etc. Lot's of great match-up potential between the 60's greats against the greats of the 40's, 50's, 70's, 80's and today.
Coolhand, you just mentioned a bunch of terrific fighters who would have been avoided like the plague by today's fighters. Imagine Griffith/Hagler
Oh man how about Tiger/Jones?
Maybe Bob Foster/Roy Jones @ light heavy?
Coolhand, ya killin me bro!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by mongoslade223; 03-25-2010 at 07:11 AM..
Reason: one more
Yeah, I think a Dick Tiger/Marvin Hagler match up would have been an epic battle. Same with Griffith vs Hagler, Toney, Hopkins, and Jones.
Bob Foster went on record stating he would have easily beaten Roy Jones at 175 lbs. He was probably right. I would have liked to see Foster vs other greats at Lt. Heavy like Ezzard Charles, Joey Maxim, Archie Moore, or some more recent talent like Hearns, Hopkins, Spinks etc. Would have loved to see Monzon vs Hearns, two tall, lanky middleweights.
Spinks vs. Holyfield was another match that was never made. That would have been a great fight at Cruiserweight. Can't forget the Cruiser greats from the 80's like Qawi, Saad Muhammad, Spinks etc.
Yeah, I think a Dick Tiger/Marvin Hagler match up would have been an epic battle. Same with Griffith vs Hagler, Toney, Hopkins, and Jones.
Bob Foster went on record stating he would have easily beaten Roy Jones at 175 lbs. He was probably right. I would have liked to see Foster vs other greats at Lt. Heavy like Ezzard Charles, Joey Maxim, Archie Moore, or some more recent talent like Hearns, Hopkins, Spinks etc. Would have loved to see Monzon vs Hearns, two tall, lanky middleweights.
Spinks vs. Holyfield was another match that was never made. That would have been a great fight at Cruiserweight. Can't forget the Cruiser greats from the 80's like Qawi, Saad Muhammad, Spinks etc.
Man, you could go on and on! You done opened up a can of worms!
So many great machups style wise and so many Pick 'ems, like Monzon/Hearns!
There are so many matchups that come down to intangibles.
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