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In the past I can relate to what you are saying about local people resenting the students and MSU when I moved here in 1970 as a student. I had some bad experiences with clerks in stores and a few others being downright mean to me, a nice Catholic girl from Helena, but I was wearing bell bottom jeans and had long straight hair, and there was so much animosity against anyone who was not totally conventional and "straight" at the time, that I see the context back then.
Things have improved completely since then.
I'm sorry you still have those negative memories about the place, but the attitude in town toward MSU has completely changed. Many of those MSU students stayed here and started businesses and families.
The town does not have the line drawn between locals and campus the way it was decades ago. MSU students are good employees, and the businesses here rely on them. Like I said, many businesses here were started by MSU graduates and/or researchers and families here are tied to MSU.
There is a strong partnership now between MSU and the town, what people now call "town and gown".
I posted this in another thread this fall, but here it is again, the MSU spirit band playing for Bozeman businesses:
"The Montana State University Marching Band took over Main St in downtown Bozeman on Friday, 8/26/11. They marched up and down Main St and "Flashed Mobbed" stores up and down the street. Afterwards, they headed to the Bozeman Mall to play in the mall." MSU - Band of the West - Flash Mob - YouTube
Here the band is in a bank... you can see the bank execs wanted their picture taken with the mascot, Champ, and MSU president Waded Cruzado. http://youtu.be/rtMr5vMtGfM
Here's the band during the "cat walk" through Bozeman businesses, playing at the offices of the Chronicle: http://youtu.be/iGsiVh1tQ7c
Last edited by happiness is; 10-23-2011 at 09:15 AM..
Reason: spelling
Well, when I was a student, it was during the Viet Nam war, the counter culture was beginning, and the local Bozeman police station had a bounty on "hippie hair", so guys were getting beaten up on campus and their hair cut off and taken down to the police station to collect the bounty. Any female who didn't have a hair-sprayed hairdo and who wore jeans and any male with a mustache, beard, or hair below the tops of their ears were hated by the locals. I remember going fishing over by Ennis and went into the local bar just to buy a coke and chips... the bartender was very rude, she said immediately, "I won't serve ya, I won't serve ya". So I had to turn around and get out of there. Mind you, I was just a normal nineteen year old, but the guy I was with had a mustache and I had long hair and bell bottom jeans, which at the time was a red flag.
It also bothered me how town people fail to recognize that the town depends on MSU for the majority of their economy. Be happy with it and move on.
This was what bothered me the most about Bozeman. The lifeblood of the town is the university and yet there is so little pride in. The landlords hated college students and would either not rent to them or treat them like third-class citizens.
Not so anymore. I live in the West Village part of Bozeman (very new) many of the nice town homes in my neighborhood are rented by students. Maybe students are better behaved now and more responsible than in your day??
For what it's worth, my mom came down with two forms of stage 3 cancer last year and had to have major surgery and then spend months getting chemo and radiation treatment. I was worried about the quality of medical care she'd receive in Bozeman and urged her to come down to the Bay Area where I live or Ohio where my sister is surrounded by some of the best medical institutions in the country. In the end she stayed put and received fantastic medical care. Her surgeons got all of the cancer and she's been pronounced cancer free. We visited in May while she was undergoing her chemo treatment and I was pleasantly surprised by how nice and ... not hospital like ... her chemo center seemed. They treated their patients like real people going through a real bad time - not like a number to get in and out of a chair so the next poor soul could take a seat and get hooked up.
Long story short - I was very pleased with the level of care my mother received from Bozeman Deaconness.
CTC, I just saw your post in response to mine. I don't think the students are any more or less well
behaved than in my student days. My friend who I went fishing with had just returned from Viet Nam,
he was a veteran, I was a well behaved Catholic school girl, but because of the times, we were
treated badly because of the way we looked - college students wearing bell bottomed jeans.
If you didn't live through something like that at the time, you may not understand how hostile people
could be just based on how someone dressed.
My wife and I have considered moving to Bozeman in a few years when we get towards retirement age. I'd appreciate an answer to a few questions:
1. What is the attitude of locals towards those who move in? I heard second hand that Bozeman has experienced an influx of migrants that has strained the system and that longtime residents are not too keen on newcomers anymore.
I will be honest that Bozeman is NOT a friendly town, unless you have a clique here from college or you grew up here. I've volunteered and done everything I can to get involved and have zero real friends, other than the people you see at the store that say 'hello' and that is the extent of that friendship. I have been here four years. I'm not saying you will not make friends, but Bozeman is a very cold place in terms of how people act. It can be very isolating after awhile.
2. We'd be coming from Utah. I know it is colder there. Are winters cold to the point of being unendurable?
They are okay - probably the best place to endure winter in the sense though they are long, the dry air keeps the low temperatures bearable. If you ski, you'll enjoy it. If you don't think it is very long, but the summers are heaven on earth.
3. Are prices (real estate, gasoline, groceries, insurance) higher than normal?
I come from the most expensive housing market in the southeast and Bozeman is ridiculously high. A small Bungalow is $549,000 in the historic district and the paint is falling off with a frat house down the street. There are few rental options that are not overrun with drunk students. I still prefer the historic south side, but if you are looking for more bang for your buck - near the mall or in Belgrade is more affordable, though still not really low compared to Livingston or other markets. (We are the most expensive housing market between Minneapolis and Seattle for the northern plains states, so that gives you an idea).
4. What is medical care in Bozeman like?
Great. Community Health Partners and Bozeman Deaconness are available as well as top doctors and dentists across the board.
5. I know there is much outdoor recreation in the area. Are there any art or cultural type activities?
I was involved with the Sweet Pea Festival of the Arts for four years on the board and it is an excellent cultural event that is volunteer run; The Emerson and Museum of the Rockies, Pioneer Museum, Main Street Art Galleries will be appreciated.
6. Is Bozeman a popular retirement destination?
It has some nice retirement homes. My mom is retired, but misses the social aspect of the south and wants to move. She is 66
7. What is shopping like? Are stores abundant and plentiful?
The shopping is decent for Montana. We have a mall with a Macy's and B&N, Kohls, HOme Depot, Lowes, Famous Footwear, Costco, Target, Wal Mart, Coldwater Creek
I'd appreciate hearing negatives as well as positives.
Things that I love about Bozeman:
- Community Co-Op food stores; abundance of decent grocery stores; great local restaurants - Mackenzie River Pizza, Montana Ale Works, Taco del Sol/La Parilla and many more; local coffee spots
- In town trail system (over 20 miles of walkable trails in town)
- Downtown Bozeman shopping (local stores)
-Outdoor access: Hyalite Canyon, Gallatin Canyon, Bridger Canyon, Paradise Valley just a few gorgeous areas within 10-40 miles. Not to mention ski areas (I don't ski, I am a hiker): Bridger Bowl and Big Sky. I mainly live here for proximity to Yellowstone National Park (this scenery almost compensates for the negatives below)
- Library is state of the art
- Museum of the Rockies/Emerson/Sweet Pea Festival/Christmas Stroll
Things that have made me decide to leave Bozeman within a year:
- Drunken culture and students who are belligerent and hateful. We live in a very nice neighborhood and have had students trash and break into our house. Threaten my mom who is on disability/just switched to SSI and is a gentle sweet natured person. The police were incompetent in the issues. They hoot and holler - doing the nightly 'wolf circle' in which students circle together and scream for about an hour, howling and hooting. It has only gotten worse in the four years we've lived here. Mind you I went to college in Nashville (Vanderbilt and Belmont) and even on bar row in Nashville - nothing compared to this; same with NC State in Raleigh and UNC-CH. It is a way of life - drinking and being aggressive here that is really shocking even for a recent college grad. It has gotten so bad we really are saving pennies and dimes to move. You might not encounter this as much in Belgrade or Livingston.
- Lack of connection; volunteering on local boards, giving my time to arts organizations and my church and I have zero real friends that go beyond a general hello at the grocery store. I have heard others who have moved to the area say the same thing. For a while I just did my own thing, but at 29 it is difficult for me and my mom at 66 when the winters are so long and you really have nothing but a surface connection. To me that is not a community. This is part MT and mostly the Bozeman mentality.
Good luck and I hope that if you do move to Bozeman it is a good experience for you
It also bothered me how town people fail to recognize that the town depends on MSU for the majority of their economy. Be happy with it and move on.
This was what bothered me the most about Bozeman. The lifeblood of the town is the university and yet there is so little pride in. The landlords hated college students and would either not rent to them or treat them like third-class citizens. Maybe they have had problems with them in the past but if you are in a college town you should expect that to be a large portion of your tenants. The businesses would not hire students even though they had a shortage of employees. You could go into several stores and be guaranteed to see the same people working in them every day of the week and at the same time see college students desperate for part-time work since there is only so much on-campus work available.
Unfortunately the University is run horribly, so the lifeblood is toxic. They really recruit vulgar students that make even the party ECU-ers and redneck NC State students in NC to be well behaved. I only see stores and businesses going out of their way for the students and leaving some of the rest of us behind. The police write off student behavior for a lot of things that in other areas priced there would be more oversight. All the stores only hire college students. I am a graduate from a top ten university and the jobs are all taken up by college students, so I don't know where that comes from. The landlords, may be slum lords (ours is not thank God, but the environment of students is); but they love the students because it is EASY money without their having to invest anything into the property, making even the nicest neighborhoods look haphazard in their upkeep, which makes the housing costs even more ridiculous. I am a recent graduate and fairly young and I resent students. The quality of students at MSU is pretty low - they get the easiest catches so they can get more cash to build the university (they then screw over the good students out of the financial aid so they can admit more for fundraising purposes), so the university really has a lot of issues and yes this comes from over thirty people I've spoken with about MSU and myself who went there a year. I then transferred to Vanderbilt where I got a full scholarship (I'm not a trust fund baby and have held a job since I was 12) and grad school at UNC. They also have one of the lowest rates of paying teachers in the country - so MSU as a centerpiece of the town...it is a shame because growing up in Raleigh, even in Nashville the university was a benefit to the town. Bozeman just screwed up on so many levels, kind of a mix of poor university management, rude people, trust fund segment, ski bums, etc...I cannot quite pinpoint one problem that can fix Bozeman. It has a lot of issues that on the surface seem minor, but over time really make this an unsustainable environment to live in long-term.
Unfortunately the University is run horribly, so the lifeblood is toxic. They really recruit vulgar students that make even the party ECU-ers and redneck NC State students in NC to be well behaved.
Wow! That is not my experience at all. These freshman get super drunk, because they are freshman. I found the older students to be pretty respectful, and nothing "crazy" ever really happens in or around campus. One time there was a rape claim, but it turned out the girl just wanted attention. True story. Look it up. Happened last year. Very embarrassing for her, and she ended up transferring like you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YNPGirl
I only see stores and businesses going out of their way for the students and leaving some of the rest of us behind. The police write off student behavior for a lot of things that in other areas priced there would be more oversight. All the stores only hire college students. I am a graduate from a top ten university and the jobs are all taken up by college students, so I don't know where that comes from.
Hmmm... You have two kinds of Bozeman naysayers (there's actually more than that) on this forum, those that say that Bozeman bends over for students, and those that say students are discriminated against. Hell they are even in the same thread! I really don't see this happening, but that's just my 12 years of experience living here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YNPGirl
The quality of students at MSU is pretty low
Wow, what a baseless comment! MSU students receive many awards, including some very prestigious awards. This school has some amazing teachers. I can only speak for the science departments here, but there is no way that this statement comes close to reality. The reason students leave here for grad school is because there are more facilities elsewhere. I'm talking multi-million dollar machines. Yea we don't have that! Oh well! I can still use an electron microscope whenever I need to though, so I'm good. Maybe if we had an operating budget in the billions, we'd have the fancy stuff too.
So [Mod cut] then we would assume that MSU assistant professors would make less than the median salary of $58,000, when in reality they make about $61,000. [Mod cut]
Quote:
Originally Posted by YNPGirl
- so MSU as a centerpiece of the town...it is a shame because growing up in Raleigh, even in Nashville the university was a benefit to the town.
MSU is a huge benefit to this community! Who, and what is so poorly organized about this university? President Cruzado is a pretty effective leader for this institution, and the first woman Latino president of a major university if I recall...
Quote:
Originally Posted by YNPGirl
Bozeman just screwed up on so many levels, kind of a mix of poor university management, rude people, trust fund segment, ski bums, etc...I cannot quite pinpoint one problem that can fix Bozeman. It has a lot of issues that on the surface seem minor, but over time really make this an unsustainable environment to live in long-term.
I see all those people you mentioned in this post, all over the country in places that have ski resorts or wherever there's a university. The only thing which I honestly can't stand about Bozeman is the layout of the streets which causes traffic. Otherwise I think this is a very friendly and awesome place.
[Mod cut]
Last edited by ElkHunter; 09-29-2013 at 10:33 AM..
Reason: Sent DM
Location: Falls Creek Ski Resort, Victoria, Australia
58 posts, read 131,632 times
Reputation: 28
We just recently moved here from Australia a month ago and are loving it. We are newbies ourselves so can only give you a newcomers opinion but the people are really friendly, our son has settled into school and has a diverse social life and there is everything we need here plus more.
Things generally seem reasonably priced but we are comparing to Australian prices which are outrageously high. There are plenty of big chain stores like Wal Mart and Costco and smaller ones in the mall but the local stores, of which there are many, are much more interesting.
We are not retired but are nearing that age and there seems to be plenty of others in our age group. So far we have found that age doesn't seem to be an issue.
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