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Old 05-27-2008, 06:20 PM
 
369 posts, read 1,349,462 times
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BozemanBound, I appreciate the amplification of your personal views. You should have no trouble "fitting in" in Bozeman but, with your fine, less than liberal perspective on things, you might have trouble getting a job!!!

A short story. Back in my Rotary days, we were to be treated with a lecture by a young woman with a degree close to yours from Berkeley. True to form she had the sack dress and all the aura of a "commie-pinko-swine-liberal. So I decided to sit next to her before her presentation to see what she was made of. Much to my surprize she was more hard-core than me! The multi-faceted thesis of her talk, and her work for the US Forest Service, was several (1) that the deforestation of South America and SE Asia was due, in large part, to environmentalists (preservationists) block on using North American forests. (2) Man needs wood and will harvest it where they can find it; and (3) NA forests are much more productive and efficient than jungles (I'm sorry, rain forests) in terms of making lumber. And she had the graphs and charts to support her case.

Good luck!

Last edited by grizzfan; 05-27-2008 at 06:21 PM.. Reason: grammar
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Old 05-28-2008, 07:53 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,193,596 times
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I know several forest service people and the interesting thing is that they agree with the regular folks! I'm told it's the upper management that has gone envirowacko and that the rank and file are not happy about it at all. Bozemanbound, there are people here who will rape and pillage the land just to get what "they" want just like everywhere else but I believe that there are fewer here than in other places. What I think we have the most of are the people who just don't care, who'll ride there ATV's where and when they want runing down saplings, tearing up the fauna etc just because they've always thought "it's a big forest so what"... I've been with them, seen it many times and don't get it. I've seen people fish, catch them and just throw them on the bank to rot since they didn't need them and then leave their beer/soda bottles and cans and go home.
While this may not have mattered as much when this state had less population they don't get that THEY are not the only ones doing this and it builds up over time. I think we can use more people like you, and if I understand you think that all uses are fine as long as you don't destroy what you're using.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:28 PM
 
7 posts, read 19,269 times
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Timberwolf

Yes, I have been on one of those! We call them swamp buggies and they are so much fun! However, if you go during the summer, you will be hit with a TON of bugs!! If you ever go, make sure you keep your mouth closed or you will swallow them!! My friend actually got a bruise on his forehead a bug hit him so hard!
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Old 05-28-2008, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BozemanBound View Post
Timberwolf

Yes, I have been on one of those! We call them swamp buggies and they are so much fun! However, if you go during the summer, you will be hit with a TON of bugs!! If you ever go, make sure you keep your mouth closed or you will swallow them!! My friend actually got a bruise on his forehead a bug hit him so hard!
Sounds cool! and a benefit of some extra protein! If we do go I'll plan it for the wintertime.. Florida winters are like summer for me!

Your friend reminds me of a picture I saw of this biker at Sturgis with a grasshoppers back end stuck to his head.. right between the eyes!
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:56 PM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,651,058 times
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I've often thought about moving up to Montana. I lived there for a while, many years ago now.
I'm living [and suffering] in a uber-liberal state, have never been happy with "life" here after years of dealing with pathological wierdness. Moving to someplace much more real and down to earth, not just conservative, would be a blessing for sure. I hear that lots of more "liberal" folks are moving to the mountain west, if so, were I to move to one of these towns I'd be moving with the very "whack-000's" that I'd very much like to distance myself from, so there'd be no point in such a move, instead looking for another more distant [from the left coast] state.

Is it true that left coast liberals are flooding into places like Bozeman?
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Cells View Post
I've often thought about moving up to Montana. I lived there for a while, many years ago now.
I'm living [and suffering] in a uber-liberal state, have never been happy with "life" here after years of dealing with pathological wierdness. Moving to someplace much more real and down to earth, not just conservative, would be a blessing for sure. I hear that lots of more "liberal" folks are moving to the mountain west, if so, were I to move to one of these towns I'd be moving with the very "whack-000's" that I'd very much like to distance myself from, so there'd be no point in such a move, instead looking for another more distant [from the left coast] state.

Is it true that left coast liberals are flooding into places like Bozeman?
Sometimes I think that it's more people that have always had money, or found a way to scam the system in other areas that move here and buy up all the private land. Internet millionaires, real estate tycoons, trust funders, and highly paid telecommuters and such... more people that have never really had to physically work at things that want a chance to play cowboy or something because they thought "a river runs through it" or "legends of the fall" were good movies and found that there was some land for sale on the internet.

Don't get me wrong, I love hunting, hiking, camping, fishing, back country flying and exploring myself, I've been doing these things for all or most of my life, as well as a lot of other honest hardworking people have.. I can't think of any of my friends or family that would turn down a chance to take a visitor into the back-country who really want to learn how to do things. I also can't think of a good friend or family member who isn't interested in learning new things to enhance what we all love to do in the back country.

It's the ones that expect a good time and treat others like they are beneath them that really get people going. It's the sue-happy get something for nothing and refuse to take responsibility folks that aggravate me. Who goes out to the mountains to camp and hike and expects a spa and 5 star hotel to be there for all their wants? It's gotten so bad that some are trying to pass legislation for SPECIAL fire protection for the rich and stupid.

The problem is the people that want to experience the back-country without taking any of the responsibility, both for their own health and safety, as well as preservation of the land and all of it's life. People that come from the suburban lifestyle that have always been able to buy everything they want without having to produce any of it themselves. Some of them buy these little ranchettes and then threaten to sue the state because a forest fire ate their poorly placed home. They build on the edge of creeks and rivers for easy fishing access in flood planes and cry for help (like this year) when the run-off fills up their yards and basements.

Another aggravating thing is these guest ranches that keep popping up to CATER to these people to make money!! You want to go elk hunting? cough up $10K and you can buy one from Ted Turner and others and not have to worry about REAL hunters getting in your way. Some of us hunt to actually help feed our families. What's wrong with actually providing something for yourself?

What is really sad? I don't think that a lot of these people even realize what they are doing and how it affects things. I think that many of them have been so spoiled since childhood that they really don't comprehend what things like self responsibility, honor, caution, courtesy, kindness and common sense really are.

Wish I had more positive things to say on the subject, but things like these are why changes in Montana are scary to me. The other is that these are the people that are controlling the pricing of land and services... it's all about #1 with them. Making money money money without care to anything else. We have a REAL problem on our hands, and the current economy shows it. To fix it we all have to start with looking at our own attitudes and what the result of the things WE do is.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:00 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,193,596 times
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Good points Timber, take a recent show/article about "glamping" for example. It was a glowing report of the "glamping" resorts popping up in MT and how the wealthy just luuuvvve that they can stay "near" the woods in a tent with a real feather bed,carpets,lights and butlers,maids and cooks. Unfortunately his "little princess" daughter didn't like the tent, too woodsy and he said "thank goodness there was a 3000 sqft "cabin" near by for us to rough it in".
Personally I'd be just fine if they'd go to the bahamas instead...
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
1,368 posts, read 6,145,333 times
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Jimj, I was going to make that exact same point.

Glamping is a waste of money. The odd part, is that due to Montana's small business... each day I work, I tend to work the president of my company. And true to Montana's style, he shows up each day in jeans and a t-shirt.

I fully bet that if he were to go camping with his family, it'd be with a tent, sleeping bags and maybe a campstove.

Hell, I'm from suburbia and I've moved here and thats how I camp. I'd never spend my money to go 'glamping'. If I want to sleep comfortably, I'll stay home. If I want to spend time outdoors... I'll go outdoors and rough it.


And Timber, I think you're completely right. The majority of these people just dont realize the impact of their actions. Hell, most of us fail on that some of the time. Its just that people with money tend to have less regard, or less need to worry about their impact because money can buy them everything.


I'll be honest, I don't get out of bozeman much... but beyond them buying up the property to inflate values... its the people who choose Montana to vacation in that really **** me off rather than the ones that move here.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 38,390,434 times
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Hell, we've all done it.

First we went camping with a ground sheet and our saddle blanket. then we got fancy and we made a lean to with a small piece of tarp so we didn't get wet when it rained. Then we got better cooking utinsils for the fire. Then we got a tent and were feeling like we owned the place. Then, we added a couple of cots. Got a cook stove. Then, a camper on the back of the truck and the kids stayed in a tent with cots. Then we got a 5th wheel and everybody stayed inside. Course, we added a generator so we could microwave pop corn in the evening. Run the AC unit when it was hot.

The McMansions just bypassed all the little crap and went straight for the 3000 sq ft camper with maids.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,934,297 times
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I've never heard that term before. "Glamping" Sounds scary.

Although the big marquee tent we set up at hunting camp sometimes is pretty nice.
No carpets and feather beds, but we do have some cots and air mattresses, and theres nothing better than some fresh back straps with taters, mushrooms, and onions on an open fire!

In past years I'd just go out in my pickup and either sleep in it or in my little dome tent so I guess I'm a little spoiled now too.

The vacationers don't bug me until they like it so much that they have to buy a vacation home here. The best tourists are the ones that come through, visit and then leave!

You guys are right though... We have all made an impact on the place. I should let some of these rich cat's actions roll off my back, but I sure get worried about my 2 year old and trying to help him get a start on life when the time comes. I'm afraid sometimes that all the land will be snatched up by the rich and leave all of us "normal" people behind.

What can we do to help fix this problem without opening season on greedy people? (Revolution anyone?)
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