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Old 05-26-2008, 11:39 PM
 
7 posts, read 19,267 times
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Well, I know it seems like I am asking what everyone else on here is asking, but I'm moving to Montana and had a few questions. First, a little about me I'm 24 and am finishing up my B.A. (Environmental Studies) in Florida, then I am headed to Bozeman in August. I know absolutley no one there and have never been myself. I need a major climate change, I have not seen snow in 15 years, and my passion is conservation....so I figured it would be an adventure! I noticed that the trend on the forum seems to be that the natives do not want anyone moving into thier state. I can relate to that. I'm an environmental major so I get that more people obviously means the destruction of the State's natural ecosystems. But, after spending the last 2 years doing research in the swamp and trying to conserve the Everglades, I have decided to try and do my part in conserving a different type of ecosystem. So, with me already knowing that I am not wanted by most of the population I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on good areas of town to rent in, environmental jobs, and parks that would be good place for a first time hiker of the area (a good place to identify local flora and flauna and such). It's hard to go by apartment rental website pictures, etc...so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 05-27-2008, 07:41 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,973 posts, read 24,189,549 times
Reputation: 15587
Quote:
Originally Posted by BozemanBound View Post
Well, I know it seems like I am asking what everyone else on here is asking, but I'm moving to Montana and had a few questions. First, a little about me I'm 24 and am finishing up my B.A. (Environmental Studies) in Florida, then I am headed to Bozeman in August. I know absolutley no one there and have never been myself. I need a major climate change, I have not seen snow in 15 years, and my passion is conservation....so I figured it would be an adventure! I noticed that the trend on the forum seems to be that the natives do not want anyone moving into thier state. I can relate to that. I'm an environmental major so I get that more people obviously means the destruction of the State's natural ecosystems. But, after spending the last 2 years doing research in the swamp and trying to conserve the Everglades, I have decided to try and do my part in conserving a different type of ecosystem. So, with me already knowing that I am not wanted by most of the population I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on good areas of town to rent in, environmental jobs, and parks that would be good place for a first time hiker of the area (a good place to identify local flora and flauna and such). It's hard to go by apartment rental website pictures, etc...so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
To be honest how welcome you'll be will probably depend on what kind of environmentalist you are. If it's the kind that thinks every tree is sacred and access to the forest should be restricted and all roads in the woods are a bad thing then I'd bet most people would not welcome that with open arms. We have enough environmental activists here as it is both local and out of state, suing the forest service at every turn and doing they're level best to kill the timber industry and all access to the forests.
If it's the kind that believes there's room for everyone in the woods (within reason of course) and that foresting is a sustainable resource then that will go a long ways.
You have to understand that this place has survived for many decades on timber harvesting until people with degrees from outside the state came in and decided it was all wrong and had to be stopped at all costs to which end they've been pretty sucessfull up to this point.
Good luck and welcome...
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:49 AM
 
369 posts, read 1,349,330 times
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jimj is being very polite in providing you an answer.

The last lumber mill in Missoula (the site of more environmental whacko organizations and do-gooder non-profits per square inch than anywhere on the planet) closed last week. When I went to the University here some many years ago, we had at least 8 teepee burners in the valley belching wonderful smoke and providing good jobs. That's all gone, not the trees, but the good jobs. To my knowledge there is only one lumber mill left in Missoula County some 60 miles NE of here. These people, that jimj mentions filing lawsuits, are so whacked-out that they tied up efforts to harvest burned trees and diseased trees on federal land. We are sick of them.

Bozeman is in a similar situation but has less tolerance for people with Envionmental Studies degrees.

Bottom line: we don't need ya.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:50 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 2,357,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BozemanBound View Post
Well, I know it seems like I am asking what everyone else on here is asking, but I'm moving to Montana and had a few questions. First, a little about me I'm 24 and am finishing up my B.A. (Environmental Studies) in Florida, then I am headed to Bozeman in August. I know absolutley no one there and have never been myself. I need a major climate change, I have not seen snow in 15 years, and my passion is conservation....so I figured it would be an adventure! I noticed that the trend on the forum seems to be that the natives do not want anyone moving into thier state. I can relate to that. I'm an environmental major so I get that more people obviously means the destruction of the State's natural ecosystems. But, after spending the last 2 years doing research in the swamp and trying to conserve the Everglades, I have decided to try and do my part in conserving a different type of ecosystem. So, with me already knowing that I am not wanted by most of the population I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on good areas of town to rent in, environmental jobs, and parks that would be good place for a first time hiker of the area (a good place to identify local flora and flauna and such). It's hard to go by apartment rental website pictures, etc...so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
I hate to break the news, but the last thing that Montanans need is more out of state environmentalists moving in and telling us what to do and how to live our life. Bozeman is not a pro-environmental town (very little of that kind of work to do) and I wouldn't recommend anyone in the environmental field to move there. Of Montana towns, you're best bet is in Missoula because there are a lot (relatively speaking) of environmentalists that live there...it's the liberal part of our state.

You'll want to do some sole searching on why you want to live in Montana, what kind of work "conserving" you want to do, and how you want to fit into the place you live in.

As an environmental major, you are certainly familiar with the multiple use concept of our national forest system, and Montanans value the multiple use concept very highly. We do not see our national forests as parkland. (By the way, there is very few "parks" around Bozeman - it's national forests rather than parkland with the exception of Glacier Park and Yellowstone, which are both a ways away).
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 38,385,545 times
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Why, because this person says Environmentalist, do you assume he/she is going to ruin your way of life? How do you know they're not going to come in an accept the way things are being done and improve on those standards, making it easier or better?

I'm telling you, the negative attitude of a few in Montana sure tend to give bad light on the rest.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:26 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 2,357,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Why, because this person says Environmentalist, do you assume he/she is going to ruin your way of life? How do you know they're not going to come in an accept the way things are being done and improve on those standards, making it easier or better?

I'm telling you, the negative attitude of a few in Montana sure tend to give bad light on the rest.
It all depends on the kind of Environmentalist.

The first kind is a conservationist, a person who loves the land, works the land, and extracts value from land while using it as humans know how to do. Farmers are some of the best known conservationists, and foresters often practice conservation. Careful timber harvest planning, good protection for streams and critical areas, and careful planting of trees and ground cover afterwards. Conservationists assist the forest service, farmers, tree companies, builders to limit the environmental impact while sustaining their chosen way of life. Conservationists often have a strong dislike for noxious weeds and work hard to eliminate the weeds from our landscape as they invade and crowd out our native plants.

The second kind, and the type I normally consider an environmentalist, is a preservationist. They are the environmentalists who believe that the land should be left alone and untouched by humans, like the designated wilderness areas. They are the kind that feel any human activity harms the environment and believe all human activity is bad. They are the ones that fight all timber sales (including sale of burned trees after a fire) and fight all extractive uses of our natural resources.

So - if you are looking at coming to Bozeman as a conservationist (one who is an advocat for industry but helps develop better and less harmful methods of conducting your business), chances are good that you'll be more welcome (or at least less disliked). But if you come as a preservationist (one who trys to stop all human activity), you'll rub a lot of people the wrong way.

All in my opinion.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 38,385,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrees View Post
It all depends on the kind of Environmentalist.

The first kind is a conservationist, a person who loves the land, works the land, and extracts value from land while using it as humans know how to do. Farmers are some of the best known conservationists, and foresters often practice conservation. Careful timber harvest planning, good protection for streams and critical areas, and careful planting of trees and ground cover afterwards. Conservationists assist the forest service, farmers, tree companies, builders to limit the environmental impact while sustaining their chosen way of life. Conservationists often have a strong dislike for noxious weeds and work hard to eliminate the weeds from our landscape as they invade and crowd out our native plants.

The second kind, and the type I normally consider an environmentalist, is a preservationist. They are the environmentalists who believe that the land should be left alone and untouched by humans, like the designated wilderness areas. They are the kind that feel any human activity harms the environment and believe all human activity is bad. They are the ones that fight all timber sales (including sale of burned trees after a fire) and fight all extractive uses of our natural resources.

So - if you are looking at coming to Bozeman as a conservationist (one who is an advocat for industry but helps develop better and less harmful methods of conducting your business), chances are good that you'll be more welcome (or at least less disliked). But if you come as a preservationist (one who trys to stop all human activity), you'll rub a lot of people the wrong way.

All in my opinion.

Ok, that makes sense. Where I grew up, the best environmentalists were the old farmers that had worked that land for 60 years and followed what their folks taught them. They know what it can and can't do, not just what the books say it should do.

But, you'll have to admit, there may be a better way. I think most environmentalists, school trained, don't have the root of what's going on. They have what the book tells them. If they take time and learn, once on station, as to what has worked and what hasn't worked and then start working on it, we should give them a chance. But for those that come in the door telling us how wrong we are to begin with, should be run out of town.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,933,940 times
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I'd suggest a visit before taking the plunge without having a job lined up. Bozeman is expensive and you may find it more difficult to get a start here than you might think.

-TW-
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:29 PM
 
7 posts, read 19,267 times
Reputation: 14
Wow! thanks for the responses! I knew that some would react neagatively to hearing about an "environmentalist" coming to Bozeman. Let me make a few corrections...

I am not an environmentalist. I am a conservationist. You are right environmentalists are pessimistic, extremely liberal and think humans are the root of all evil to what happens to this planet. I on the other hand am surprisingly not very liberal. I do think that some actions that humans have taken have a negative toll on our envirnment. But, we are not all bad.

I will in no way participate in saying negative things about loggers, miners, etc...I don't think any of those industries have to be shut down and put people who have been making an honest living out of work. Our natural resources were put on this earth so that we could use them to benefit us. But, some people think that they can take whatever they want and run a forest bone dry without any consequences (this is just a point, I do not believe this is happening in Montana, but it is happening elsewhere) When I said conserving a different ecosystem I meant work at the national parks, improve trails, give tours...etc. I am moving there to try and make a living too, NOT to make one by ruining others way of living

And sorry I used the term parks. I will make sure to NOT use it when I am there!
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,933,940 times
Reputation: 687
You might want to try to land a job with Fish Wildlife and Parks or the USFS beforehand. Although in your field I'm sure you know more about those types of jobs than I do...

As for being a conservationist or an environmentalist you are sure to find both types, but for the most part Bozeman is more of a yuppie type of place anymore, so be prepared to pay out the nose for stuff until you figure out the place a little bit..

P.S.

It's off the topic here, but while you were in the Everglades did you ever ride a fan boat? I did some training down that way when I was in the service and have always wanted to go back and rent one of those, man those things looks fun!
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