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Old 12-15-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Woods Bay, Montana
216 posts, read 600,330 times
Reputation: 116

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
What I do understand is, anyone who fusses about such petty crap is a pain in the #2 place and no one you need to be around the rest of your life.
What I understand is any man to be inconsiderate enough to leave it up all the time doesn't need to be around either. My husband is considerate and I love him for it.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,838 posts, read 13,463,346 times
Reputation: 3380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
If I do go there, I will be having a job interview in early February or so, so perfect from that perspective.
<conspiracy>
February usually has a nice bout of spring-like weather...
</conspiracy>

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Old 12-15-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,986 posts, read 12,438,616 times
Reputation: 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
<conspiracy>
February usually has a nice bout of spring-like weather...
</conspiracy>


Can't have any of that! I NEED -15 with a wind to get the right feel for the place!
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 38,412,671 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Can't have any of that! I NEED -15 with a wind to get the right feel for the place!
That can be arranged too.
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,838 posts, read 13,463,346 times
Reputation: 3380
Yeah, as we say.... If you don't like the weather, wait five minutes -- it'll change!!
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:28 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,594,591 times
Reputation: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pashta View Post
What I understand is any man to be inconsiderate enough to leave it up all the time doesn't need to be around either. My husband is considerate and I love him for it.
I'm VERY considerate, in general- just eliminate petty folks real fast .
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:02 PM
 
152 posts, read 303,981 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Thanks for the offer Nature's Cathedral!
Well, I teach plant and wetland ecology and resource management. I don't expect I would have much choice in school size, but I like the midsized universities best. I have actually been to and love New Mexico, so any tips are welcome. I've neve lived in PDX, but I did spend several years in Corvallis, and now live in S. Oregon. Where are you moving in MT?
You are welcome Fiddlehead. We are moving to the Bitterroot Valley, (Hamilton in particular) south of Missoula. Whether a town had a college was not part of our criteria, but I have been to several.

Tell me more specifically what sort of climate setting you and your wife would prefer? How do you handle cloudiness, temperature, humidity, etc? What types of activities are most important to you and your wife? What minimum cultural abilities do you require? Is closeness to family a concern? Do you have children and how do they fit into your decision? What are your wife's job opportunities? How much crime can you stomach?

This will go a long way in making a suggestion.

The first thing we did was decide on our criteria and assign points.

1. Where can we work? For us this was not a limitation.
2. What outside activities are available?
we gave points based on the following
upto 4 points for being next to the ocean
upto 4 points for being next to major national parks or forests for camping and hiking.
upto 2 points for fly fishing
upto 3 points for skiing based on time to slope and quality of slope.
3. Coming from Portland is was important for us not to choose a place that was headed in a similar direction so any place that voted for Obama by more than 57 percent was excluded. This number was used to allow Bellingham a chance compete. In the end we excluded Bellingham for its control freak nature, and having one of lowest number of sunny days. It is a Portland in the waiting.
4. The taxes of a state and local area were also ranked. This was very important. There is no way around downloading the forms from each states department of revenue. By the way there is no place better on taxes than Cody, Wyoming. You will pay up to a thousand more for property taxes than Montana in general, but the only other tax is a four percent sales tax. I used formulas to equated sales taxes to equivalent income taxes. This is quite complex.
5. COL and potential income. This is a limitation on the tax advantage. Montana is notorious for having too low a set of incomes in the face of the cost of living that can offset the tax advantage of Montana in comparison to Oregon, and California. This website has really good up to date median home prices which is the driving force of most cost of living concerns.
6. How well did I like each place in person, and what were the people like. Crime etc.
7. We also compared the resources for children such as playgrounds, and libraries.

What I can gather is that you want to avoid the super liberal spots as what you describe about Ashland describes most similar liberal cities like Boulder, Berkley, and even places like Eugene, Missoula, and Bellingham (to a lesser degree). Almost all University towns are more liberal than average, but some have a greater degree of moderation. Gallatin county is much more moderated than Missoula county for example. Columbia, Missouri is quite liberal by comparison to the rest of Missouri, but it is completely different type of liberalism than what you find in the liberal parts of California. New England is quite normal compared to the west coast despite the similar voting patterns. Western conservatism is different than southern conservatism.

What you describe about Ashland you see in almost all very liberal western locations. Part of it has to do with fact that liberalism is the dominant political view of the wealthy in the west, and the other part is the heavy land use controls that liberal cities use directly drive up the cost of housing. The Cato Institute has great articles on land use controls and the cost of housing. It is estimated that land use controls in Seattle increased the median home prices of Seattle by $100,000. Santa Barbara, CA is likely one of the most extreme examples where strict building codes against high rises results in a median home price of over a Million dollars. Conservative locations don't like people telling them what to do so you in general you have far less controls. This sits on top of general issues of supply and demand. Jackson, Wyoming is an example of very limited supply and very rich people and it voted over 60 percent for Obama. Park City, Sun Valley, and Aspen exhibit the same pattern.

I think what I am getting at is if you want a lower cost of living you can't be in highly liberal place in the west.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,935,680 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by nature's cathedral View Post

I think what I am getting at is if you want a lower cost of living you can't be in highly liberal place in the west.
I think that you are on to something... hmmm
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:24 PM
 
Location: NW Montana
6,258 posts, read 13,499,525 times
Reputation: 3437
Yes, great post. I understand wages are higher in Wyoming.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,986 posts, read 12,438,616 times
Reputation: 5650
Quote:
Originally Posted by nature's cathedral View Post
You are welcome Fiddlehead. We are moving to the Bitterroot Valley, (Hamilton in particular) south of Missoula. Whether a town had a college was not part of our criteria, but I have been to several.

Tell me more specifically what sort of climate setting you and your wife would prefer? How do you handle cloudiness, temperature, humidity, etc? What types of activities are most important to you and your wife? What minimum cultural abilities do you require? Is closeness to family a concern? Do you have children and how do they fit into your decision? What are your wife's job opportunities? How much crime can you stomach?

This will go a long way in making a suggestion.

The first thing we did was decide on our criteria and assign points.

1. Where can we work? For us this was not a limitation.
2. What outside activities are available?
we gave points based on the following
upto 4 points for being next to the ocean
upto 4 points for being next to major national parks or forests for camping and hiking.
upto 2 points for fly fishing
upto 3 points for skiing based on time to slope and quality of slope.
3. Coming from Portland is was important for us not to choose a place that was headed in a similar direction so any place that voted for Obama by more than 57 percent was excluded. This number was used to allow Bellingham a chance compete. In the end we excluded Bellingham for its control freak nature, and having one of lowest number of sunny days. It is a Portland in the waiting.
4. The taxes of a state and local area were also ranked. This was very important. There is no way around downloading the forms from each states department of revenue. By the way there is no place better on taxes than Cody, Wyoming. You will pay up to a thousand more for property taxes than Montana in general, but the only other tax is a four percent sales tax. I used formulas to equated sales taxes to equivalent income taxes. This is quite complex.
5. COL and potential income. This is a limitation on the tax advantage. Montana is notorious for having too low a set of incomes in the face of the cost of living that can offset the tax advantage of Montana in comparison to Oregon, and California. This website has really good up to date median home prices which is the driving force of most cost of living concerns.
6. How well did I like each place in person, and what were the people like. Crime etc.
7. We also compared the resources for children such as playgrounds, and libraries.

What I can gather is that you want to avoid the super liberal spots as what you describe about Ashland describes most similar liberal cities like Boulder, Berkley, and even places like Eugene, Missoula, and Bellingham (to a lesser degree). Almost all University towns are more liberal than average, but some have a greater degree of moderation. Gallatin county is much more moderated than Missoula county for example. Columbia, Missouri is quite liberal by comparison to the rest of Missouri, but it is completely different type of liberalism than what you find in the liberal parts of California. New England is quite normal compared to the west coast despite the similar voting patterns. Western conservatism is different than southern conservatism.

What you describe about Ashland you see in almost all very liberal western locations. Part of it has to do with fact that liberalism is the dominant political view of the wealthy in the west, and the other part is the heavy land use controls that liberal cities use directly drive up the cost of housing. The Cato Institute has great articles on land use controls and the cost of housing. It is estimated that land use controls in Seattle increased the median home prices of Seattle by $100,000. Santa Barbara, CA is likely one of the most extreme examples where strict building codes against high rises results in a median home price of over a Million dollars. Conservative locations don't like people telling them what to do so you in general you have far less controls. This sits on top of general issues of supply and demand. Jackson, Wyoming is an example of very limited supply and very rich people and it voted over 60 percent for Obama. Park City, Sun Valley, and Aspen exhibit the same pattern.

I think what I am getting at is if you want a lower cost of living you can't be in highly liberal place in the west.
Well Nature's Cathedral,
I can see you are a quantitative person. I have had one too many Negro Modelos to rank all my preferences tonight, but here are some initial thoughts:
1. I like college towns, because I hope to teach at a college. They tend to be liberal, but not always over the top.
2. I like a mix of clouds and sun, not too wet or dry. I'd rather have snow in winter than roasting summers (Vegas is out!). Most importantly, I like seasons. I don't like the always the same coastal places.
3. I love to be outdoors hiking and camping,etc.
4. Beach is nice to visit, but does not need to be next door.
5. Love mountains. And prairies. And big, trout-filled rivers.
6. Love aspen trees and thunderstorms (oh, already said that..).
7. Like affordable housing and a short commute.
8. Like solid, safe public schools.
9. Like a nice place to graze my unicorn, cause I am in fantasy land to want all this.....

Thanks again!

Last edited by Fiddlehead; 12-16-2009 at 12:15 AM..
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