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I am 23 years old and a burgeoning entrepreneur. I knew when I was a wee lad that I wanted to work for myself and not for somebody else. However I don't feel like there is a lot of opportunity in my area (Grand Rapids, MI). I just don't see an "in." There is absolutely no access to starting capital, no incubators, no nothing in the area. It is tough to get a startup loan. I have some capital but not nearly enough. I'd like to either start a small restaurant, retail shop, or social media marketing company.
I don't have a hard and fast plan because I plan on scouting out whatever area I choose and looking for an in in the community.
The thing that attracts me to New York state is because it had a reputation for a bad business climate for so long, but now is trying to remedy it. They are making steps. I see some acceptance by liberals like Cuomo they can't give unions every single thing they want or tax everybody to death but at the same time they refuse to end up like Texas and defund critical services and become lapdogs for big business.
I see a ton of capital, entrepreneur development programs, incubators and the like listed on the websites for New York State and the regions. There are a lot of networking opportunities. I don't see any of this in any other rust belt state or area.
I am at a crossroads. Originally back in high school my plan was to relocate to a southern ultra low tax state like Texas or Tennesee. As I've gotten older as much of a fiscal conservative as I am I come to realize that those low taxes come at things like quality of life. The South has low education, high poverty, many people with no basic health care, and no social safety net. I prefer the higher quality of life the north offers me, with less tornadoes, hurricanes, and droughts.
I also debated the plains states of ND, SD, and NE because of their good economy but I've realized it has been overblown. ND is impossible to find housing and brutally cold, SD is a bit better but also boring. Nebraska's economic growth is stagnant, even with low unemployment. Basically I'd rather be somewhere where there is growth potential.
I think the rust belt is going to be making a comeback. I think urban areas have a lot of appeal to the younger generation. The reason I'm aiming toward Buffalo is because of New York State's superior access to capital and networking. Also I looked at the other cities in the great lakes region.
Chicago is not really rust belt, it is rust belt in the south but like a mini-NYC in the north. It is too expensive and really Chicago is established enough where I don't see a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities like I see in a city like Buffalo.
Milwaukee, though it is right across the lake, is like Chicago lite. It is a bit more sluggish than Buffalo is, and less access to capital overall. Wisconsin doesn't seem to offer much except to big companies. They are still stuck on the idea that manufacturing is going to be their cash cow. They do have UW-Milwaukee and Marquette but it is nowhere near SUNY or any of the other big Buffalo colleges.
Cleveland hasn't hit bottom yet. I think it's waking up, I'd give it another ten years before things start to turn around.
Detroit is deep in the gutter. I don't think it has hit bottom either. I think it may take another 15 years. Plus the Detroit area is too extreme in terms of crime and unemployment, and has low services. Everything is sprawled out. I'm sad as I'm a Michigander, but I must admit Detroit is a dump and will never be rated the number ten place to raise a family by a national magazine for a LONG time, Buffalo has though.
Pittsburgh I really like. I think it could very well be the Portland of the east. It's another place I'd consider. I don't see as much capital there though and it is too humid in the summer. I love how hilly it is in pictures but actually living there and driving around would be a pain. Finally Pittsburgh is getting taken over by too many hipsters. You need some hipsters as they often lead revitalization but I fear they'll gentrify the Pitt too much, as they've done to too many other places. I imagine some will come to Buffalo, but I don't ever see Buffalo becoming "hot" which actually may be a good thing. Plus I grew up on the lake (MI) so I am used to 90 inches of snow, prefer the cooler summers, and am more of a water guy than a mountain guy in the end. I'm an avid biker in the warm months, and I don't need Pittsburgh's hills destroying me up hill or threatening my life downhill.
Plus I feel Buffalo is closer culturally to my area, whereas Pittsburgh is more connected to Appalachia.
Also Buffalo is a hair closer if I drive through Canada, and finally closer to Niagara Falls and Toronto, added benefits.
In the end I don't think I could live away from a body of water. It makes the climate that much more tolerable in the summer, and water is water. If I wanted mountains I'd go to real mountains like Denver, not Pittsburgh. Finally I can respect a Sabres fan, but going into Penguins country is walking behind enemy lines.
Man I'm impressed with your analysis, very unusual and interesting. From what you've written, I think you'll be successful and Buffalo would be lucky to have you. Not sure I can add much to your points, you seem to have done your homework. Best of luck.
I agree with Krisps. You really thought this out. I'd say to visit to see if you would like it and maybe consider or think about other areas, just in case. Buffalo's location is key in terms of not only American dollars, but Canadian dollars in a time where their dollar is on par. Location could be good in terms of transportation/logistics as well.
Texas also gives more incentives that any other state, but like you mentioned, it is largely to bigger businesses. This article gets into some of the other things you mentioned too: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/us...anted=all&_r=0
If you don't mind me asking, what part of the GR area are you from? I think a difference you may notice is the less religious vibe here in comparison, but you can get in where you fit in either way and even in other aspects.
I grew up in a rural area, I guess Holland would be the closest city. I've also lived in Allendale and Grand Rapids proper.
Texas is good for tax breaks, but as I said taxes won't be an issue until I reach the high income levels. I doubt it has the same religious vibe. I am a religious person but the whole vibe people give is one of insularity. I talk about my plans of being an entrepreneur and people laugh me off and try to crush my dreams. You see that anywhere but it is especially bad in West MI. People here don't understand why I'd ever take a risk, nor will they take any risk of investing in you.
Last month the OP was a recent accounting grad with an associates degree looking to settle in the South, specifically Mississippi: Oh, I'm So Sick of the Cold.
I have no problem with the OP's question to start this thread, just with his/her presentation of himself. It may very well be that the OP decided that Mississippi isn't the place for him.
I grew up in a rural area, I guess Holland would be the closest city. I've also lived in Allendale and Grand Rapids proper.
Texas is good for tax breaks, but as I said taxes won't be an issue until I reach the high income levels. I doubt it has the same religious vibe. I am a religious person but the whole vibe people give is one of insularity. I talk about my plans of being an entrepreneur and people laugh me off and try to crush my dreams. You see that anywhere but it is especially bad in West MI. People here don't understand why I'd ever take a risk, nor will they take any risk of investing in you.
So, are you from around Zeeland or Hamilton? I ask because would you be looking for a similar type of community or is that a non issue?
I grew up closer to Saugatuck, actually. I live with my parents now to save money for my impending move/startup but also lived in Allendale while attending GVSU and later had an apartment in GR. It doesn't really matter to me where I would live. I understand the only part of Buffalo to avoid is the east side (am I right?).
I know crime has gone down there but it is nowhere near Detroit, Cleveland, Memphis, St. Louis, or south side Chicago.
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I have no problem with the OP's question to start this thread, just with his/her presentation of himself.
I don't see what the problem is. As I said before I've been toying with the idea of going somewhere else for some time. I'm not saying MI is bad, it is just that I lived here my whole life and want to go somewhere else for a while. I'm toying with different locations and exploring them on this forum.
I never said I wanted to go to MS because I am so sick of the cold, I said I liked the cheap cost of living and the like. But Buffalo is ultimately closer and there are more economic incentives. Please note my MS thread was never me worrying about getting a long term career, as I always intended to start my own business, I just forgot to make myself clear. I'm simply toying with areas to go to. I considered the south but in the past month I've done more thinking and studying on the subject and decided it was not right for me. I looked at Delaware due to its favorable corporate laws. In the end I decided I don't want to go much more than ten hours away, so I'm narrowing it down between the plains states, most likely Omaha and Buffalo or Pittsburgh, but leaning toward Buffalo. Omaha has a stronger economy than Buff or Pitt but I see a lot more potential to go up for Buffalo and Pittsburgh. There is already an infrastructure there and they need to revitalize. Omaha is growing steadily which is nice but I see a lot more entrepreneurial opportunities in turning around an area than I do in a stable area.
I don't see what is wrong with me presenting myself, I've always said I'm 23 years old with a business degree looking to work on a startup and I feel my area is not conductive to that. I'm not acting like I'm some millionaire high roller coming in to build a bunch of skyscrapers.
I already have about three basic business plans formulated, I'm just looking for the place to raise money, find partners, and launch. For the sake of people not stealing them I can't reveal what they are.
It would be great for Buffalo to have you here but I live here and would not start a business in Buffalo, or anywhere in New York state for that matter. You will be taxed to death if you make any money, which is why they just passed tax-free zones near college campuses. This could be a benefit to you while it harms someone else, and that's if you meet all of the requirements to get tax-free status, and if it isn't deemed unconstitutional. Even the unions are against this.
You say the south has low education, but the high school graduation rate in Buffalo is 47%. Now whether you start up in metro Buffalo or a suburb, your tax dollars are going to support the other 53%+ that aren't contributing to society and are just accepting your handouts like their parent(s) do. If you are within city limits and want to hire, you can't even ask about their criminal history.
Duff's, a famous chicken wing restaurant with 4 locations in Buffalo and a few in Ontario, just opened their first location in another state-the state of Texas. And they've been here for years.
If you come here and have a good business, your problem isn't going to be attracting customers. It will be dealing with being over taxed and over regulated.
It would be great for Buffalo to have you here but I live here and would not start a business in Buffalo, or anywhere in New York state for that matter. You will be taxed to death if you make any money, which is why they just passed tax-free zones near college campuses. This could be a benefit to you while it harms someone else, and that's if you meet all of the requirements to get tax-free status, and if it isn't deemed unconstitutional. Even the unions are against this.
You say the south has low education, but the high school graduation rate in Buffalo is 47%. Now whether you start up in metro Buffalo or a suburb, your tax dollars are going to support the other 53%+ that aren't contributing to society and are just accepting your handouts like their parent(s) do. If you are within city limits and want to hire, you can't even ask about their criminal history.
Duff's, a famous chicken wing restaurant with 4 locations in Buffalo and a few in Ontario, just opened their first location in another state-the state of Texas. And they've been here for years.
If you come here and have a good business, your problem isn't going to be attracting customers. It will be dealing with being over taxed and over regulated.
I think what the OP means by education is in terms of higher education and for the whole metro. Urban education isn't too great in many/most areas unfortunately, in a general sense.
It will be interesting to see how taxation would go for the OP as a small business and if his business were to expand. It seems like money has to be given in order to attract companies. So, the welfare may be a matter of corporate or socially based.
I think there's a lot more things like loans and the like available in NYS. I see them trying to revitalize Buffalo and I think I might try to catch in on some of the money. Plus the colleges I can recruit business partners, I also see a lot of incubator programs. My general observation has been that places like Buffalo will dole out a lot of handouts to businesses. It would make more sense to lower the rates and broaden the base but you need to take advantage of incentives. Starting capital is my main problem.
Also I feel like New York is not exactly a small business mecca. I feel like competition will be less, which is my thinking. Instead of going to Texas where everyone else is, go to the place people don't want to be. Yes taxes will be higher, and so will regulations, but as long as I stay small I can deal with that. My goal is to earn an average wage, not get rich. Rick Perry is trying to recruit businesses away from New York and I think this is good. My main goal is to defeat competition.
At the end of the day people will still choose to live in New York State for its quality of life versus Texas. Its population is not growing as much as Texas, but not shrinking. Buffalo's shrink is slowing and I think Erie County posted growth.
Plus the Buffalo area has a lower cost of living than big cities in Texas like Dallas, Austin and Houston, and if I went to Texas I'd only consider those areas, I'd never dream of going to some podunk little town.. I guess in the end I don't expect to hire more than a couple employees at my peak. My goal for business has always been to deliberately stay small. I'd like to hire a few people but not too many. Another benefit New York has it is it leading the way on implementing health exchanges, which will benefit my business in the starting out. In Texas 30% are uninsured.
Do I agree with NYS high taxes and regulations? No.
But even it is more taxes and regulations than Texas it isn't the Soviet Union in the end, or even France.
But I see the fact that so many businesses are going to Texas as essentially meaning I will have more competition. The tax free zone thing is dumb public policy, but sooner or later NYS is going to have to get its head together. No, it will never have as low of taxes or as little regulations as Texas. New York will never ever be a libertarian utopia, but eventually they will wake up somewhat, they have to. I think there are some rumblings that they may be. But it has such a bad reputation in the business community it will take a long time to shake it, and I am sort of coming in to jump ahead.
Texas is always going to have lower taxes and regulations, so businesses will flock there. But there are 50 other states and it isn't like there are no businesses in any of those 50. I see the Texas thing as more aimed at manufacturing business and the like, and if I were starting a manufacturing business I'd go to Texas over New York. But I'm not going into that.
Also culturally upstate New York is more similar to MI than Texas, and the Texas culture kind of gives me bad vibes. I'll always be inclined to the great lakes. Why come to Buffalo from MI? We don't have any good urban colleges and I feel like this will create more of an environment for startups to flourish. People here are not willing to take any risks. I've been looking for somebody to take care of the technical end of things while I take care of the business broader vision end but in the end they are all risk averse. Very conservative and frugal. Housing here (West MI) is more expensive than Buffalo (interesting how Buffalo has some of the cheapest housing in the nation and NYC has the most expensive housing in the USA). It isn't ridiculous, but still rent is going to be a good 100 per month more. Obviously it is cheaper in Detroit but Detroit is still sinking downhill. Buffalo is coming back. It is one of the dreams of my lifetime to see Detroit revitalized but I'm not sure it will happen. Buffalo and Pittsburgh, though they were smaller than Detroit, sort of represent my hopes for the direction Detroit can go in. Finally the legislature here is hobbling the health insurance exchange on purpose for political reasons (against the Republican governor's wishes). I want the health exchange for my business, but I'm not sure I'll get it here. I'm a fiscal conservative on most issues, but not on health care because I think universal health care benefits small business and entrepreneurs starting out, though I understand why big business is against it because it will tax them more and they can't lord the risk of losing health coverage over their employees to keep them obedient. If Obamacare had not gone through I'd go to Massachusetts to start my business, because I only intend to get a part time job while building it up.
I have a unique way of looking at things, I admit. I see a lot of advantages in Buffalo that are not apparent on the surface. Too many people just up and go to Texas thinking low taxes are automatically going to make their business successful, while in the end they forget it is customers and finding an untapped market that makes it work. If anything, Texas is not untapped.
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