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Actually, I bike or take the train to work so as long as major roads are clear, it's OK. Secondly, snow-plowing doesn't define the desirability of a place to live if you don't have to depend on a car (which in Buffalo proper is relatively easy). Additionally, the "wariness" comes from a decline in test scores that many posters insist is the litmus for determining the quality of a school (or a district). Since we are seeing declining scores in first ring suburbs we can expect transition and dropping real estate values and all the other white-flight phenomena (which is occurring). Cheektowaga's rank is barely above Buffalo in BizFirst. SweetHome in Amherst has dropped to 34th in four years from 13th or so. Just symptomatic of a shifting socio-economic base which bodes poorly for real-estate values (that were probably over-inflated to begin with) which will ultimately the safety song and dance tune you claim to adhere to.
Since the OP has been looking at the Southtowns, I think that he/she has a car and intends to use it, so snowplowing IS important. Moreover, in a medical emergency or a fire, how the hell are EMTs and firefighters supposed to get down unplowed streets? Neither ambulances nor firetrucks are AWD or 4WD.
The OP didn't say that he/she was looking for the "best" school district, either. You keep pushing your "well, some Buffalo schools are just as good as suburban schools" agenda on virtually every thread, but it's getting old. Most children in Buffalo public schools do NOT attend schools that are "just as good as suburban schools", and the chances of getting into one of those "just as good as suburban schools" are, at best, iffy unless you are politically connected -- and just because your kids got lucky doesn't disprove my claim.
Furthermore, that Sweethome and Cheektowaga have had an influx of poorer kids in recent years does not necessarily mean that all real estate values in those towns (Amherst and Cheektowaga) is in decline since both districts are in towns with multiple school districts. Even within those districts, there's nothing to suggest that all real estate values are going to decline. All the suburban towns have good and bad/less desirable areas --ie, there are mobile home parks in Clarence -- and some of the older areas of first ring suburbs are definitely less desirable.
However, while these may be "less desirable" to people already living in the suburbs, they are very desirable to many people living in even less desirable neighborhoods in Buffalo. See, genoobie, it doesn't matter if you rent a little triplex on Niagara Falls Blvd or if you own a spacious ranch on a side street in a few blocks away, your kids will go to the same public schools, in this case Amherst Central Schools. That's what makes suburban schools better than BPS and keeps suburban home values climbing: there's no politics or favoritism or lotteries in school attendance policies because school attendance districts attach to entire districts/neighborhoods, and most parents like that.
Funny thing about that two-tiered system isn't it? Lauded regionally (i.e. suburban schools supposedly better than urban but that seems to be ok with you), but not OK within Buffalo proper? So if a family cannot afford to move into a wealthy district (because that's really what dictates the results on standardized tests and thus the "quality" of a district, isn't it?) then they are consigned to what then, terrible? What then? 1st ring burbs are selling because people are perceiving a drop in housing values based on test scores in their school district. Precisely the metric that posters on the board decry as the be-all-end-all of measurement of "success". I say, fine, then those people who are left behind get their just desserts. I would certainly double check the "climbing" claim you have for suburban home values. Especially in areas just near the border of Buffalo and Amherst, Kenmore, W. Sen, etc. prices have remained flat (aka falling) for at least a decade. Good luck with all of that Linda.
As far as pushing families outward, we will first see the decline in test scores and graduation rates in the immediate first ring burbs (as is already happening). Thus a decline in the "quality" of schools. Unless you mean to suggest that the quality of school is independent of the student contained within it, in which case all "qualities" thus claimed so far by most posters would be invalidated.
genoobie, let the OP move to the area they want. The wanted HAMBURG. PLEASE Stop hijacking every thread with "the only place decent is Buffalo". It isn't true. Most of us give general information. My post here was on general things to know: like get the blasted school district maps so you buy in the district you want (!) and you went off on the Buffalo tangent again. [And Buffalo? Yes, they are the worst at segregating students by "quality" ( read " ability") and it does change the system into a two-tier system.]
For the OP, who wanted Hamburg, I posted the link to the district. They do NOT post a map of the district, so I guess a person looking at the district ( esp. on the edges of town) needs to get a district map from the district itself. Most places post the map.
Actually to quote the OP, "I am not opposed to living in Buffalo either near the college." So stop beating the dead horse that I "hijack" threads. You've repeatedly mentioned this multiple times even though in many cases the posters are simply seeking information about an area. Instead of giving the tired old, "You ought to look where there's a good school district" mantra, I'm suggesting that people seeking information shouldn't necessarily rely on the "good school" mantra that you and many other posters preach.
What you are suggesting is that living in an exclusive suburb is somehow superior to living in a city where schools are divided into a two tier system. The very nature of exclusive suburbs and school rankings is to support a two tier system. How is one superior to another?
I never suggested that Buffalo wasn't a two-tiered system that separates students by test scores (read parental income level / credentialed educational attainment). However, to claim that suburban areas don't do this is absurd. The very nature of having suburban districts is so that people can exclude themselves from "less desirable" classes. Why else bother with school rankings?
To the OP, what you will get from multiple posters on the board is that the only acceptable place to live is somewhere outside of Buffalo and if you follow their advice you would end up in either Williamsville, Clarence, Orchard Park, East Aurora, or Iroquois school districts. Personally, I don't care where you choose to live so long as you are happy there. You may want to consider Buffalo because there is a program that if you enroll in BPS you can send you kids to SUNY schools tuition free. that's a pretty good deal.
"You may want to consider Buffalo because there is a program that if you enroll in BPS you can send you kids to SUNY schools tuition free. that's a pretty good deal. "
genoobie is somewhat right on the free college. If the child goes for all 13 years (K-12) and graduates from Buffalo, they get the $$ amount tuition of a SUNY school. It is prorated lower % for less years in the district. If you move out prior to a child graduating? You get zip. Plus, your child has to get into the college based on grades as well, it isn't just automatic entrance.
We would do better to go back to the old Regents Scholarships: You took at least 5 4-year Regents sequences and in senior year you took a 6 hour exam ( statewide, it was 100% identical). The top 10% of scores got a SUNY tuition; the next 10% got an automatic "alternate" position to get a scholarship someone declined by going out of state/those alternates got a lower amount stipend anyway. And yes, I did go to a SUNY school with 4 years of free tuition. I had one of the Scholarships... I still worked for the fees, the books, the living accommodations, so it was never a free ride.
I guess you could say people up to 1962 had a free ride because there was no SUNY tuition then and if they were a commuter, it was just fees and books.
Last edited by BuffaloTransplant; 12-04-2013 at 06:30 AM..
I did NOT say standardized test scores. I should have pointed out everyone gets TAP ( about $250/term); I think there should be a statewide Regents exam like there always was.
Just because you live in the boundaries of the city where most kids are failing should not give you dibs on free SUNY tuition. :: There are no kids this poor in first ring burbs? Or on the Res (any of them?) Let's just spend it all over, genoobie.[ Its called spreading the wealth ( or socialism). Cripe, you're middle class -- you should pay full ride, to (bleep) with your own middle class kids! --cut it off at the poverty line for all . ]
The concept is flawed:
Give tuition to people withing certain boundaries when others are just as poor ( discrimination)
Deny the tuition to people in other boundaries ( discrimination)
Is this what you want? Discrimination???
It has nothing to do with standardized test scores given over every grade every year (which you object to); I object to that as well. But any kid willing to work all the Regents in HS should have the same right to opt to take the old Regents Exams for a chance at the same tuition as a kid who gets it by virtue of address.
No way should scholarship be based principally on standardized test scores.
But getting into a select high school should be? Isn't that how kids get selected for Hutch Tech in Buffalo? My neice was accepted into HT based on the entrance exam.
I got a Regents scholarship back in the 1960s. As BuffaloTransplant says, it was a specific state-wide test that any HS senior thinking about going to college could take.
The National Merit Scholarship is also based on a test that students nation-wide take. As a HS teacher, I would think that you would be aware of the National Merit Scholarship competition as it started back in the 1950s.
So please tell me what was the "6 hour exam ( statewide, it was 100% identical)". This is not a standardized test?
Yes, there is discrimination. There is discrimination against wage earners who's labor is undervalued and overvalued based on educational credentials which are tied to parental education levels / income levels. I have kids that get very little or no parental support because their parents don't know my high school science content. This is very different from the regions where parents can support their kid's coursework. There's a student in my class who has one of the highest grades, why? Not necessarily by virtue of her own effort but her mother and father are both professionals who happen to be immigrants. Spare please about "discrimination". If we lived in an otherwise egalitarian society, you would have an argument. Present day dystopia? Not a chance. You ever look behind the counter? In the laundry rooms? After hours? Do you know who is supporting the existence of a middle an upper class?
I would agree that income should be the primary determining factor for need-based aid. So there are people in Cheek, W.Sen., Blasdell, Alden, etc., that would all qualify. However, that assistance is already in place. Should it be expanded? Most certainly.
To Linda_D, so in your world people should be excluded based on income? That's nearly identical to the exam concept. Except the exam would likely discriminate based on income, not necessarily. Here's a solution Linda, why not let kids from Buffalo bus out to exclusive suburban schools? So let's eliminate entrance exams at the local high schools, but let's make all schools available to all families. That would seem to be a solution that ought to satisfy you.
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