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"I think anyone who moves should be moving "to" something, not "away" from something."
What about the Cuban refugees, Jews fleeing Nazi Germany, the Hungarian refugees in 1956 to name a few? They certainly were moving "away" from something and most probably had no idea where or how they would end up. Therefore had no idea what they were moving "To".
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 04-25-2014 at 05:49 PM..
It's not a surprise. I just pulled the quote "foreign immigrants" from the article "www.newgeography.com/content/001129", regarding the classes of people who are moving out and those who are moving in. There's nothing wrong with legal immigration. But what the article fails to do is mention the number of illegal immigrants coming into New York or into the United States, which is not a good thing. Poorly educated, unskilled impoverished people who come to this country illegally become dependent on governmental services, which we all have to pay for. The media always seem to blend the two together, you will rarely hear them call illegal immigrants "illegal immigrants" instead they choose to call them "immigrants" as if they are here legally, which they are not. In order to become an American citizen there are certain requirements that must be met, reading, writing, and speaking the English language is one of them. When you live in a community where new arrivals can't speak a word of English, it is not unreasonable to question whether they are here legally or not. The people who moved in next to us in New York came to this country 19 years ago illegally, and are still in this country illegally along with all of their relatives whom they crammed in next door. However some do speak broken English and freely admitted to us that they are indeed here illegally and came into this country by "jumping the fence" as they so aptly put it. Uncontrolled borders and the proliferation of illegal immigration will lead to the downfall of this once great nation. There's simply not enough jobs to go around or that are being created to employ any American citizen that wants one, otherwise we would have reverse unemployment statistics and a severe labor shortage. Poorly educated impoverished people are not job creators or entrepreneurs. If that were the case the 12 million or so that are in this country illegally would be creating thousands of new businesses and millions of jobs that go with them. How many people people have gained employment through the efforts of a poor person? The other problem with illegal immigration is the Balkanization of the United States and multiculturalism. It is imperative that those who come to the United States leave their foreign cultures and beliefs behind, otherwise there will be culture clashes and centuries old conflicts between foreign nations brought to our own soil. The United States should be one nation, one people, one culture, and one language.
Actually, all of this has been occurring the US for decades, if not centuries. For instance, where do you think the term W.O.P. came from? There has always been illegal immigration to the US, but I think it may be a matter of the face of that image as well and the timing.
Where do you think the ethnic enclaves came from in many a city in the Northeast and the Midwest? Isn't that a form of balkanization? I believe that you can assimilate, while not forgetting about your roots. Many people of various backgrounds have done just that in this country and some better than others.
"Actually, all of this has been occurring the US for decades, if not centuries. For instance, where do you think the term W.O.P. came from? There has always been illegal immigration to the US, but I think it may be a matter of the face of that image as well and the timing."
"W.O.P." Without papers. Sure it has been occurring for decades but that does not make it right. The United States can not become a dumping ground for the world's indigent population. There's just not enough to go around without further pushing the middle class further down the economic ladder. Someone has to feed, clothe, educate, house and take care of their medical needs. Making a wealthy person poor will never make a poor person wealthy, besides if we were to confiscate all of that wealth there still wouldn't be enough to support that population. As with other socialist nations the only ones who will benefit are those that are in power.
Quote:
"Where do you think the ethnic enclaves came from in many a city in the Northeast and the Midwest? Isn't that a form of balkanization? I believe that you can assimilate, while not forgetting about your roots. Many people of various backgrounds have done just that in this country and some better than others."
Indeed it is a form of Balkanization, again that does not make it right. Many of these people do not want to, or refuse to assimilate. A lot of them are here to take whatever they can from our federal, state and local governments, while flying their foreign flags at protest rallies demanding rights and privileges that they haven't earned. We've made it too easy for them to feel that they are back in their home country by establishing these neighborhoods and allowing for unchecked illegal immigration where they are not required to learn about American history or more importantly about our system of government, and the principles this country was founded on. Specifically, that we are a "Constitutional Republic" and not a democracy, there is a big difference. If more people understood that principle, our government could never enslave us. A "Constitutional Republic" is a system where the government has to abide by a certain set of rules, "the Constitution" they take oaths to uphold it, this is to ensure that the rights of the minority can never be violated, that is we have certain unalienable rights granted by our creator. No matter what political party is in power those rights can not be revoked except by our creator. A democracy is where the majority rules regardless of those rights. Depending on who is in power they will determine what rights shall be retained. Many people come from countries that have that type of system and don't understand the concept of a "Constitutional Republic". Good for a corrupt oppressive government, terrible for the governed.
"W.O.P." Without papers. Sure it has been occurring for decades but that does not make it right. The United States can not become a dumping ground for the world's indigent population. There's just not enough to go around without further pushing the middle class further down the economic ladder. Someone has to feed, clothe, educate, house and take care of their medical needs. Making a wealthy person poor will never make a poor person wealthy, besides if we were to confiscate all of that wealth there still wouldn't be enough to support that population. As with other socialist nations the only ones who will benefit are those that are in power.
Indeed it is a form of Balkanization, again that does not make it right. Many of these people do not want to, or refuse to assimilate. A lot of them are here to take whatever they can from our federal, state and local governments, while flying their foreign flags at protest rallies demanding rights and privileges that they haven't earned. We've made it too easy for them to feel that they are back in their home country by establishing these neighborhoods and allowing for unchecked illegal immigration where they are not required to learn about American history or more importantly about our system of government, and the principles this country was founded on. Specifically, that we are a "Constitutional Republic" and not a democracy, there is a big difference. If more people understood that principle, our government could never enslave us. A "Constitutional Republic" is a system where the government has to abide by a certain set of rules, "the Constitution" they take oaths to uphold it, this is to ensure that the rights of the minority can never be violated, that is we have certain unalienable rights granted by our creator. No matter what political party is in power those rights can not be revoked except by our creator. A democracy is where the majority rules regardless of those rights. Depending on who is in power they will determine what rights shall be retained. Many people come from countries that have that type of system and don't understand the concept of a "Constitutional Republic". Good for a corrupt oppressive government, terrible for the governed.
I agree with the essence of what you are saying and you make a lot of good points. However, I must ask: isn't Arizona the epicenter of the illegal immigration problem? When I think of illegals, I think of AZ and TX more so than NY. Though I recognize its occurring everywhere.
"W.O.P." Without papers. Sure it has been occurring for decades but that does not make it right. The United States can not become a dumping ground for the world's indigent population. There's just not enough to go around without further pushing the middle class further down the economic ladder. Someone has to feed, clothe, educate, house and take care of their medical needs. Making a wealthy person poor will never make a poor person wealthy, besides if we were to confiscate all of that wealth there still wouldn't be enough to support that population. As with other socialist nations the only ones who will benefit are those that are in power.
Indeed it is a form of Balkanization, again that does not make it right. Many of these people do not want to, or refuse to assimilate. A lot of them are here to take whatever they can from our federal, state and local governments, while flying their foreign flags at protest rallies demanding rights and privileges that they haven't earned. We've made it too easy for them to feel that they are back in their home country by establishing these neighborhoods and allowing for unchecked illegal immigration where they are not required to learn about American history or more importantly about our system of government, and the principles this country was founded on. Specifically, that we are a "Constitutional Republic" and not a democracy, there is a big difference. If more people understood that principle, our government could never enslave us. A "Constitutional Republic" is a system where the government has to abide by a certain set of rules, "the Constitution" they take oaths to uphold it, this is to ensure that the rights of the minority can never be violated, that is we have certain unalienable rights granted by our creator. No matter what political party is in power those rights can not be revoked except by our creator. A democracy is where the majority rules regardless of those rights. Depending on who is in power they will determine what rights shall be retained. Many people come from countries that have that type of system and don't understand the concept of a "Constitutional Republic". Good for a corrupt oppressive government, terrible for the governed.
How ironic, socio-historically speaking. I'm not saying that it is right, but that it has been going on for a long time.
Vintage, my thoughts exactly......
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-25-2014 at 09:18 PM..
"I agree with the essence of what you are saying and you make a lot of good points. However, I must ask: isn't Arizona the epicenter of the illegal immigration problem? When I think of illegals, I think of AZ and TX more so than NY. Though I recognize its occurring everywhere."
Yes it is, same for the other southwestern states, obviously because they can just walk across the border in some places. Texas they have the Rio Grande with it's many nooks, crannies, narrow width and length that make it easy to cross, plus you can't put a fence in the middle of it. The main difference is that Arizona is not a sanctuary state, like New York. It is more of a gateway into America. A lot of them choose not to stay. The State of Arizona has passed many bills that have been hostile to illegal immigrants most notably SB1070. It is also illegal for businesses to hire illegal immigrants, yet in some cities such as Phoenix and Tucson the law is repeatedly ignored. It's no coincidence that those cities also have Democratic mayors. Where I am in central Arizona you rarely see them. I was quite surprised to be able to go to the home improvement stores in my area and not see them congregating around the stores looking for work, and the lack of day laborer sites in our community. When I lived in Peekskill, N.Y. they were all over the place, not a day went by when you didn't see them. Some lived right next door to me, calling code enforcement fell on deaf ears in Peekskill City Hall in spite of the fact that they had laws prohibiting the harboring of multiple families in a single family home. This is what is meant as a sanctuary city or state, these are places where they tend to congregate.
Not completely true: NH is growing at a real nice pace, not as quickly as states like NC, but growing steadily to not have such of a rapid overgrowth and all that comes with it. Maine and VT are also growing slowly. I know this map shows MA as yellow, but I think its also holding quite steady at 3-5% growth per decade.
What do you think is the main draw in New Hampshire? I'm intrigued as to why folks move to where they move..
"How ironic, socio-historically speaking. I'm not saying that it is right, but that it has been going on for a long time. Vintage, my thoughts exactly......"
I didn't think so, I think we're on the same page. This has been an interesting discussion indeed!
Upstate SC isn't too bad and is historically the most affluent region of the state. Columbia is growing as well and some people move to the SC portion of the Charlotte metro. So, the bigger metros are probably the way to go if considering a move to SC.
I think more people that may leave the Northeast may look west more often than they have in the past and this may include bigger, landlocked cities like Omaha or Albuquerque, if it isn't happening already.
We like it here, outside of Greenville, SC. Moved in '07 to Columbia, hated it there (government/regional HQ town with a lot of crime) and moved here in '08, before the downturn really set in.
Another great thing about the South is the lack of labor unions, especially public employee unions. Upstate NYers may gnash their teeth at the above, but it's true, and quite frankly the chickens are coming home to roost there in NY with the costs of the PEU's, taxes up there have gone way up since we left. Yet Upstate NYers continue to put up with that nonsense. $100K plus bennies for school teaching? Fat pensions and free health for life? State pensioners don't have to pay state income tax? Good grief. The arrogance of many of them slays me, too.
NY still added people between 2000-2010 and it still doesn't deal with the fact that the Myrtle Beach metro has or recently had the lowest average annual income out of 387 metros. I personally don't have anything against the area, as I've mentioned many times on here that my mother is essentially from the area originally(the adjacent county). Many move to the area to retire as well. So, it is what it is.
..yet the stats prove that the people moving into NY are low-income, vs. much higher incomes for folks moving to other states. I think the spread in NY is somewhere around $52K for folks moving in, vs. close to $80K for folks moving away (household income). Upstate has lost over 250K people in the last 24 or so years. This map illustrates the trend:
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