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I agree with some of the things the OP said, although he may not do it in the most classy way.
First, the growth in this area and the sustainability of it is a nice intelligent discussion and interesting topic, because one must wonder how sustainable it is
Second, there is NO DOUBT, Buffalo's downtown area has improved substantially from 2005 to present day 2015 with the building around the medical campus (new childrens hospital, the conventus center etc), canalside and the investment in the harbor centre...
Buffalo has some tremendous luck on its side lately......from having Terry Pegula fall into its lap, and from the Sabres landing Jack Eichel....while im not convinced the region economy will ever be a place young professionals relocate to and where people stay in mass numbers....our so called bad luck and curses definetly seem to be reverseing and good things have been happening lately to the region for a change.
Now, the reality of the situation in Buffalo is Basically experienced some growth and stimulation but at the exepense of tax payer dollars, and at the same time, how lucky was Buffalo that Terry Pegula fell into the lap of the region with his billions and invested 172 million into the Harbor center, a major part and cornerstone of the Canal side revival.....and the same will likely happen in 10-15 years when Pegulas build a new stadium and maybe knock the skyway down as a major part of it..
A lot of the other tax payer dollars has gone to Solar City, a company thats lost 500 million since 2010, and who is going to say NO to massive Free Tax Breaks to relocate here.....not to mention theres been tax breaks here and there for businesses to relocate downtown to create a couple hundred jobs....
So this "Growth" is heavily built on government subsidy and sports and recreation......im not gonna complain, I mean hey, NYC gets it all the time, why not us for a change? But then again, Where's Rochester and Syracuse's billion?
The other reality of the situation is what is really being created from a Billion plus dollars of investment?? Aside from Solar City, a couple thousand jobs here and there, some retail and service industry job (like we dont have enough of those) and some research jobs from the medical campus......And from myself being in healthcare myself, the Medical Campus is a good thing, but it will never be like Strong MEmorial Hospital, or what Cleveland Clinic has, or even a UPMC......and it is anchored by a struggling Kalieda health system which has been cutting jobs and bleeding money for years, and is not a mind blowing healthcare system to begin with.....in terms of research and jobs with UB and Roswell...if you have the advanced education to get one of those jobs then great but many in Allied Health will not benefit much from the Medical Campus, and its very difficult to get hired at Buffalo General or Childrens if your in Allied Health. I wont even be suprised if some people lose their jobs when the New Childrens hospital opens......I mean when Gates closed, all they really did was close Millard Gates Circle, consolidate with Buffalo General and lay a bunch of less senior staff off and opened the Gates Vascular extention to the hospital and called it "growth" when it was really consolidation.
Downtown may have seen some improvements funded on tax payer dollars, and around sports and recreation, and may have seen some "consolidation" and relocation investment from Kalieda into the medical campus, but what about the region as the whole? The entire Buffalo Niagara area?
The largest employers in this area are the State, Federal, and Local government employees....Of the regions top 10 employers 5 are related to State and Federal Government (including schools) and only 3 are not and those 3 are M & T bank, Tops, and I think First Niagara is up there now as well. And its funny with all the growth down town, you'd think we'd be able to find a major tennant to fill our 90 % vacant old HSBC Tower, the tallest building in Buffalo.....maybe First Niagara takes that over someday??
But there are no fotune 500 companies in this area, and I think M & T is the only fortune 1000 company here, although I think there is one more.
when we compare some basic economic data of other rust belters in Detroit and Cleveland
Metro Detroit and Ann Arbor have over 18 Fortune 500 companies in their areas, Greater Cleveland and Akron has over 17 and Buffalo has just 2......
and theres not a lot of disposable income in this area either
Estimates of Median Income of those cities metros by comparison:
Detroit -> 49,000 ( 17th in the US
Cleveland-> 42,000 (85th)
Buffalo-> 38,400 (139th)
And Per Capita income:
Detroit -> 47th 22,319
Cleveland -> 23rd 24,275
Buffalo-> 117th -> 20,143 (3rd lowest of all US cities with over a million in its metro)
So theres not a lot of wealth in this area and disposable income here.
Lastly, Taxes Taxes and Taxes.......
NY State Taxes kill everything and hurt everyone......many peoples property taxes are almost as high as their mortages in the region. And because of those taxes, the Cost of Living is NOT as cheap as it is often made out to be.....yes housing is cheap here, and for reason because many people here do not make the money to pay more than the market allows them to, and regardless of whats happening downtown, there's still not much of a regional economy here..
and without massive tax breaks, what major business is going to want to relocate anywhere upstate??
So is Buffalo's growth sustainable?? I dont think so
But there are some good things that have happened here to the area recently, and hopefully Buffalo can find a way to keep on trucking upward
You do realize that Ann Arbor and Detroit, as well as Cleveland and Akron are separate metro areas, right? Akron and Ann Arbor are metro areas in their own right.
Also, Detroit is a metro of over 4 million people and is in the top 20 in this regard. Cleveland has over 2 million people and is roughly twice the size of metro Buffalo. So, it is kind of an apples to oranges comparison, just on this information alone.
You'll notice that there are metros ahead of Buffalo in other states that have been given rave reviews for their growth that have higher percentages of government employment. So, government influence in terms of employment and area growth isn't exclusive to or necessarily higher in Buffalo versus some high growth areas.
I don't know. I see both sides of the issue and believe that the area is coming back. In fact, on the Skyscraper forum where I like to discuss urban development I call myself "Buffalo's Idealist." On Buffalo Rising I also tend to stay on the optimistic side regarding everything from complete streets to the Outer Harbor chair lift. I think the area can come back and is in the process of doing that.
I reluctantly have to agree with some of what the OP is saying however. I don't use the phrase "tell it like it is" or any of that other cocky garbage, but it's simply true that there is an economic problem in the area. We need more SolarCitys in the area, I don't believe that giving incentives to these companies is a bad thing. I guess it's just a parachute so for when taxes finally come down these businesses can hit the ground running.
As I mentioned, SolarCity helps, but it's not a silver bullet. Could Buffalo attract a Fortune 500 company or create a technology hub like we are seeing with the Medical Campus, employing tens of thousands of people? Why can't we make the Central business district just that, and make it tax exempt for certain things? I can't help but notice busy streets during the week and everything is dead on the weekends.
Weather shouldn't be a problem for this area, Minneapolis is just like Buffalo and supports many Fortune 500 companies.
I'll also never forget driving on the beltway around Cleveland and seeing about 10 large Progressive offices complexes. Hmm, Cleveland isn't that much bigger than Buffalo, why can't we have that kind of corporate loyalty here? A month ago I saw something similar in Canonsburg (Southpointe), PA, near Pittsburgh. An entire town filled with about 1000 acres worth of office and retail space. The closest thing around here is probably Crosspointe.
The presence of the Bills and Sabres continues to shine a spotlight on the city every fall, spring and winter. Without them Buffalo would be on the notoriety scale where Fort Wayne is.
Recreational opportunities: that's happening extremely slow. Look at how Canalside is being handled by the state. HarborCenter is completed in 2 years and they are still trying to figure out how to build a Children's museum (and don't forget, there are 5-6 other parcels out there ready for development, but that process is stalled).
Also, there is economic disparity. For some reason Buffalo suffers from the donut hole syndrome where all of the better jobs are located everywhere that isn't the East Side. How this cyclical chain reaction involving drugs, jail and violence, poor education, and a complete lack of quality jobs is beyond me. But once it is broken, and residents that are currently there who are willing to get a well paying job do, I can guarantee the East Side will look like North Buffalo and Bailey will become a Hertel of sorts.
mttzakr87 also pointed out plenty of flaws in the area's Renaissance that could be addressed going forward.
I don't think OP is being negative, I think he is thinking critically. No one here WANTS to see this area stagnate, speaking for myself, I just think adjustments at the state level can fix a lot. Start Up NY and 43North may help with this as incubators. I think a bright future is ahead for the area, but it may not happen as soon as some would like.
I don't know. I see both sides of the issue and believe that the area is coming back. In fact, on the Skyscraper forum where I like to discuss urban development I call myself "Buffalo's Idealist." On Buffalo Rising I also tend to stay on the optimistic side regarding everything from complete streets to the Outer Harbor chair lift. I think the area can come back and is in the process of doing that.
I reluctantly have to agree with some of what the OP is saying however. I don't use the phrase "tell it like it is" or any of that other cocky garbage, but it's simply true that there is an economic problem in the area. We need more SolarCitys in the area, I don't believe that giving incentives to these companies is a bad thing. I guess it's just a parachute so for when taxes finally come down these businesses can hit the ground running.
As I mentioned, SolarCity helps, but it's not a silver bullet. Could Buffalo attract a Fortune 500 company or create a technology hub like we are seeing with the Medical Campus, employing tens of thousands of people? Why can't we make the Central business district just that, and make it tax exempt for certain things? I can't help but notice busy streets during the week and everything is dead on the weekends.
Weather shouldn't be a problem for this area, Minneapolis is just like Buffalo and supports many Fortune 500 companies.
I'll also never forget driving on the beltway around Cleveland and seeing about 10 large Progressive offices complexes. Hmm, Cleveland isn't that much bigger than Buffalo, why can't we have that kind of corporate loyalty here? A month ago I saw something similar in Canonsburg (Southpointe), PA, near Pittsburgh. An entire town filled with about 1000 acres worth of office and retail space. The closest thing around here is probably Crosspointe.
The presence of the Bills and Sabres continues to shine a spotlight on the city every fall, spring and winter. Without them Buffalo would be on the notoriety scale where Fort Wayne is.
Recreational opportunities: that's happening extremely slow. Look at how Canalside is being handled by the state. HarborCenter is completed in 2 years and they are still trying to figure out how to build a Children's museum (and don't forget, there are 5-6 other parcels out there ready for development, but that process is stalled).
Also, there is economic disparity. For some reason Buffalo suffers from the donut hole syndrome where all of the better jobs are located everywhere that isn't the East Side. How this cyclical chain reaction involving drugs, jail and violence, poor education, and a complete lack of quality jobs is beyond me. But once it is broken, and residents that are currently there who are willing to get a well paying job do, I can guarantee the East Side will look like North Buffalo and Bailey will become a Hertel of sorts.
mttzakr87 also pointed out plenty of flaws in the area's Renaissance that could be addressed going forward.
I don't think OP is being negative, I think he is thinking critically. No one here WANTS to see this area stagnate, speaking for myself, I just think adjustments at the state level can fix a lot. Start Up NY and 43North may help with this as incubators. I think a bright future is ahead for the area, but it may not happen as soon as some would like.
Just asking, what's adjustments do you think the state needs to make and how would they go about doing this? I'm only asking, because people hardly mention how the state should go about doing this. This is only in terms of possible suggestions and not to debate or argue about the topic, as the thread ends up getting derailed.
What you see in much of the East Side, is sadly another thing altogether, as even growing areas have such areas and disparities. This list is a big wake up call in regards to per capita income and some factors have to be kept in mind: Study finds broad income inequality - Buffalo - Buffalo Business First
So, disparities aren't exclusive to Buffalo and is a topic that needs to be addressed on a national level.
Tbh, I think Start Up NY is probably good enough for now, but there are things such as this MTA/NY Thruway agreement that could help alleviate costs for certain services, then there is the bank settlement. Other than that, I can't think of anything else off of the top of my head.
If you don't like an area because of its weather or culture, then you probably should look into relocating. It's tough to be happy in a place that simply does not suit you, and that may impact your personal relationships, your career, and/or your health. However, if you leave a place you dislike for someplace you like a lot better, what's the point of "returning" to your old area via the web and bashing it? Move on already and be happy in your new abode. Relocation isn't an evangelical process in which you try to "convert" the "unrelocated."
As for adjuncts, I agree that they're seriously under paid, and this is a growing trend, not just in cash-strapped public colleges and universities, but also in very well-heeled private institutions as well, including some of the most prestigious universities in the US. At some institutions, more than half the faculty is part-time.
I'm still here. A misunderstood Joaquin Phoenix movie, and also what is true, for me.
I just found the sample of 58 metros to be odd, given that about 52 metros have at least 1,000,000 people.
I said North American, did I not? I also said 'I assume' regarding the 1,000,000 minimum, did I not?
I admit, I was a bit taken aback myself by the 57 of 58 stat when Heaney threw it out there. He could've just shown a chart of the 58 to illustrate, but it was alluded to rather randomly. I'd be inclined to dismiss it were it not for anecdotal evidence and the fact that when I was a kid in the '90s, I remember hearing on the radio that Erie County was the second-oldest in the nation to Palm Beach.
I'm somewhat of a stats/geography nerd; had he elaborated, I'd be able to report, even now. But he didn't. I'm just reporting what was said (and I can link to the presentation if you wish via investigativepost.com), and then surmising what was actually meant
To me, though, that stat, essentially true as it is, just reinforces GTFO. Odds are bad here. I'm 29. If anything is going to work against the prevailing demographics, it's the annual influx of college students. They're 18-24 at most. Immature, even if surprisingly intelligent (and given the selectivity of the institutions here, I'm never expecting upper echelon--hence 'surprisingly' intelligent...kinda like I probably was when I decided to spurn Cornell to be a philosophy dropout at UB).
Anyway, the easy moral of the story is that 'no one' (proverbially) is moving here that's my age. Most of my favorite people from my own age range whom I've happened to meet have moved away over the past several years. I feel like I too 'should'. And I'm no cutthtroat capitalist; I'm a registered socialist. I prioritize other things, like human connections. The reason I'm still here is family. But in an effort to, I don't know, enjoy my existence, I'm not sure that's doable here under any reasonably sober circumstances. These 'intangibles' are unpredictable, despite the best efforts of next-generation economists who attempt to quantify happiness and the like. It's still subjective, thankfully.
But it's a true conflict. If it weren't, I'd have left by now. There are pull factors, and there are stay factors.
Yeah I just watched the first 75 seconds or so and I have to admit that, from what I saw, this is exactly the sort of lecture that molded me into an autodidact/made me drop out of college.
I said North American, did I not? I also said 'I assume' regarding the 1,000,000 minimum, did I not?
I admit, I was a bit taken aback myself by the 57 of 58 stat when Heaney threw it out there. He could've just shown a chart of the 58 to illustrate, but it was alluded to rather randomly. I'd be inclined to dismiss it were it not for anecdotal evidence and the fact that when I was a kid in the '90s, I remember hearing on the radio that Erie County was the second-oldest in the nation to Palm Beach.
I'm somewhat of a stats/geography nerd; had he elaborated, I'd be able to report, even now. But he didn't. I'm just reporting what was said (and I can link to the presentation if you wish via investigativepost.com), and then surmising what was actually meant
To me, though, that stat, essentially true as it is, just reinforces GTFO. Odds are bad here. I'm 29. If anything is going to work against the prevailing demographics, it's the annual influx of college students. They're 18-24 at most. Immature, even if surprisingly intelligent (and given the selectivity of the institutions here, I'm never expecting upper echelon--hence 'surprisingly' intelligent...kinda like I probably was when I decided to spurn Cornell to be a philosophy dropout at UB).
Anyway, the easy moral of the story is that 'no one' (proverbially) is moving here that's my age. Most of my favorite people from my own age range whom I've happened to meet have moved away over the past several years. I feel like I too 'should'. And I'm no cutthtroat capitalist; I'm a registered socialist. I prioritize other things, like human connections. The reason I'm still here is family. But in an effort to, I don't know, enjoy my existence, I'm not sure that's doable here under any reasonably sober circumstances. These 'intangibles' are unpredictable, despite the best efforts of next-generation economists who attempt to quantify happiness and the like. It's still subjective, thankfully.
But it's a true conflict. If it weren't, I'd have left by now. There are pull factors, and there are stay factors.
To be continued.
My mistake on not seeing the North American part, but it is still odd, as it isn't like people can necessarily move to the other 6 metros freely.
Considering that Buffalo has some of the nicest countryside in North America near a metro area, any chance the region can benefit from the emerging AirBnB economy? Maybe some underused farmhouses and barns can be retrofitted into cottages and venues like what is being done in the North Fork and Dutchess.
ckh, I bet it was minimum 1 mill (which EC was in the 1980 census, and it's possible that the study used old data, as studies sometimes do). By median age, Nassau is older than Erie now; not sure where it stood according to the '80 census.
Or maybe the DJ was lying. But if you compare EC's median age of 40.4 to other counties which are essentially 'city metros' (Nassau itself is extremely suburban (as is Palm Beach, for what it's worth)), most have a median age of somewhere in the 30s. I just looked up the majority of the other states, and (surprise surprise) only Cuyahoga (Cleveland) and Allegheny (Pittsburgh) were '40 or over' for 'city metro counties of Erie County's size or larger'
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