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Old 10-29-2016, 07:07 AM
 
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Their uneducated
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:07 AM
 
91,948 posts, read 122,044,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey22 View Post
But Myrtle Beach does not look like Afghanistan. When I tell people I'm from Buffalo, Their like OMG, eek, yikes or yuck and make faces like it's so terrible and the worst place on the planet.
Myrtle Beach also has its suspect areas as well and if you go a little bit outside of the city, it can be quite impoverished. My mom is originally from a town minutes away and trust me, it isn't the richest area of SC.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmd69 View Post
Their uneducated
Yeah, I think people just take what the media gives them without doing their research or checking things out for themselves.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:47 AM
 
177 posts, read 160,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmd69 View Post
Their uneducated

Maybe that's why theirs very little to no private investment and no new business's locate to WNY for years. Pretty much the rest of the country is booming. There even building new Billion dollar auto plant's in Las Vegas and Las Vegas's NHL Black Knights are building a new version of Harbor Center with 2 ice rinks, with a resort, water park, golf course in the booming Summerlin area The new home of the NHL combo.
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Old 10-29-2016, 09:57 AM
 
47 posts, read 52,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Didn't say the first part, but the point is that there are other considerations such as Niagara Falls being a tourist city playing a part. Go look at Myrtle Beach's information of another example of where being a tourist city can skew the crime rate. Same goes for towns that are retail centers in regards to property crime. Blog | Should you be worried that Myrtle Beach is ranked the 12th most dangerous U.S. city? | The Sun News
Looking at the article, the author's primary contention with Myrtle Beach's crime stats is that they include crimes throughout the entire metro area (which the author claims has over 10x as many residents as Myrtle Beach itself). That is a valid concern, of course, but isn't applicable to Niagara Falls.

The state solicitor that was interviewed echoed my point about the vast majority of crimes not being committed by tourists:

Quote:
Few tourists, however, perpetrate the types of violent crimes that can make a place dangerous. "I agree with that," Hembree said. "You don't have a lot of tourists coming here to knock off a liquor store."

I agree with one of the comments that appeared below the article:


Quote:
Blaming tourists is a cop out. First off, there are hundreds of other US cities that have an influx of tourists too. Secondly, other cities seem to be able to police the troublemakers. Why can't MB?

Also, how do you factor tourists into the equation? In Niagara Falls, a good percentage of tourists only visit the Falls for a few hours before leaving. How would such visitors be counted if you were to recalculate the city's crime stats?
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Old 10-29-2016, 01:03 PM
 
91,948 posts, read 122,044,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbex15 View Post
Looking at the article, the author's primary contention with Myrtle Beach's crime stats is that they include crimes throughout the entire metro area (which the author claims has over 10x as many residents as Myrtle Beach itself). That is a valid concern, of course, but isn't applicable to Niagara Falls.

The state solicitor that was interviewed echoed my point about the vast majority of crimes not being committed by tourists:




I agree with one of the comments that appeared below the article:





Also, how do you factor tourists into the equation? In Niagara Falls, a good percentage of tourists only visit the Falls for a few hours before leaving. How would such visitors be counted if you were to recalculate the city's crime stats?
That article also referred to how the number of tourists could skew the crime stats as well. It also mentions how certain crimes are categorized and how that may have an effect on the crime stats/rate. Even when looking at the Buffalo Business First article, NF had 3 homicides in 2015 and assaults made up the largest portion of the violent crimes by far. What we don't know is what type of incidents are includes in those assaults. For instance, like the Myrtle Beach article mentions, are they domestics? How many are bar fights included? Are they all street/gang fights?(Doubt it). Knowing this could put the crime into perspective in terms of being random or not, as well as where in the city incidents occur.

Also, not all tourist communities are the same and may attract a range of folks or a specific set of people. Some are bigger or smaller than others. No one is strictly blaming tourists, but they may be a factor and even the MB article stated that about 17% of incidents were caused by those not from the area. Then, there are the opportunists.

Many tourist areas seem to have a way of calculating how many visitors visit that city/area throughout the year. Hence, the article earlier in the thread about an all time in visitors to NF. Many may come multiple times from the surrounding area or they may track the number of visitors that enter the park and certain venues. In relation to crime, the location of those involved in an incident may be one way to calculate this, but even this isn't cut and dry, especially considering that a college student from the area could be from outside of the area.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:06 PM
 
47 posts, read 52,804 times
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Regarding crime stats being skewed: You could make the same argument about most cities across the country.

What about Columbus, Ann Arbor, Austin, Knoxville, Lexington, Gainesville, Tallahassee, and other cities with large universities? You have tens of thousands of students living in those cities for most of the year, that aren't counted in the population figures unless they live off-campus. The violent crime rate goes up every time one of these uncounted students gets robbed, raped, or assaulted. The presence of large universities puts those cities at a statistical disadvantage vis-a-vis Niagara Falls, no?

And what about larger cities that receive more suburban commuters, business travelers, and partygoers than Niagara Falls does everyday? For example, someone who lives in Marietta and works in Atlanta isn't counted in the latter's population figure. But if he is robbed within Atlanta's city limits, the crime rate will reflect that. This obviously isn't something that affects Niagara Falls as much because the city isn't exactly a thriving business hub by any means.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:18 PM
 
91,948 posts, read 122,044,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbex15 View Post
Regarding crime stats being skewed: You could make the same argument about most cities across the country.

What about Columbus, Ann Arbor, Austin, Knoxville, Lexington, Gainesville, Tallahassee, and other cities with large universities? You have tens of thousands of students living in those cities for most of the year, that aren't counted in the population figures unless they live off-campus. The violent crime rate goes up every time one of these uncounted students gets robbed, raped, or assaulted. The presence of large universities puts those cities at a statistical disadvantage vis-a-vis Niagara Falls, no?

And what about larger cities that receive more suburban commuters and business travelers than Niagara Falls does everyday? Someone who lives in Marietta and works in Atlanta isn't counted in the latter's population figure. But if he is robbed within Atlanta's city limits, the crime rate will reflect that. This obviously isn't something that affects Niagara Falls as much because the city isn't exactly a thriving business hub by any means.
Actually, students are counted in the population of those cities due to census criteria. Off campus students are counted in the economic data, as they tend to live in neighborhoods with dwelling with value versus on campus dorms which don't have any value. So, it isn't the same as tourist cities/towns. Just so people don't think I'm making the college residency thing up:
College Students Count in the Census, but Where? | Pew Research Center

With the latter, you could make a case for it, but is it a tit for tat comparison, given the size of Atlanta in relation to the visitors it may get versus the population of Niagara Falls and the visitors it gets? I don't know at that, but I would think that the visitors that NF gets is more vital to its economy in comparison.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 10-29-2016 at 03:38 PM..
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Old 10-29-2016, 06:13 PM
 
47 posts, read 52,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Actually, students are counted in the population of those cities due to census criteria. Off campus students are counted in the economic data, as they tend to live in neighborhoods with dwelling with value versus on campus dorms which don't have any value. So, it isn't the same as tourist cities/towns. Just so people don't think I'm making the college residency thing up:
College Students Count in the Census, but Where? | Pew Research Center
I stand corrected on this part. I was looking at another Census survey, the Current Population Survey, which does count students living in dorms as living with their parents. Still, there is the issue of underreporting of college students as mentioned here: http://www.annarbor.com/news/2010-ce...count-but-key/

Not to mention students, unaware of the 2010 Census guidelines, who listed their parent's address: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ege18_ST_N.htm

Quote:
With the latter, you could make a case for it, but is it a tit for tat comparison, given the size of Atlanta in relation to the visitors it may get versus the population of Niagara Falls and the visitors it gets? I don't know at that, but I would think that the visitors that NF gets is more vital to its economy in comparison.
Atlanta received more than 50 million visitors last year. On top of that, you have to add the number of people in surrounding municipalities who head into Atlanta for work, sporting events, concerts, partying, and other things. The Census website has information on commuter-adjusted population here: https://www.census.gov/hhes/commutin...aytimepop.html

Atlanta's daytime population increases from 413,462 to 687,251, a 66.2% change, from commuters alone.

But since we are comparing cities within New York State, let's use another example. Albany, currently #5 in the NYS crime rankings, has a similar increase of 66.9% during work hours: https://www.census.gov/hhes/commutin...on%20Paper.pdf

Let's assume that Niagara Falls receives 10 million visitors per year (the range seems to be 6MM to 12MM for the American side of the Falls). This translates to a daily population increase of 27,397 from tourism. That is an increase of only 56.9%, exactly 10% less than Albany's population increase from daily commuters:

Niagara Falls
Population: 48,989
Daily Tourists: 27,397
Adjusted Population: 76,865
Percentage Increase: (76,865 - 48,989) / 48,989 = 56.9%

Albany
Population: 97,951*
Daily Commuters: 65,577
Adjusted Population 163,528
Percentage Increase: (163,528 - 97,951) / 97,951 = 66.9%

* The data used for Albany is a few years old, but is the most recent data available.

While this "adjusted population" calculation isn't an exact science, there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Niagara Falls and other tourist towns aren't the only cities with misleading population/crime statistics.

Last edited by urbex15; 10-29-2016 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 10-29-2016, 07:54 PM
 
91,948 posts, read 122,044,192 times
Reputation: 18130
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbex15 View Post
I stand corrected on this part. I was looking at another Census survey, the Current Population Survey, which does count students living in dorms as living with their parents. Still, there is the issue of underreporting of college students as mentioned here: 2010 Census: Ann Arbor's student population is hard to count, but key

Not to mention students, unaware of the 2010 Census guidelines, who listed their parent's address: Why are college students so hard to count in the Census? - USATODAY.com

Atlanta received more than 50 million visitors last year. On top of that, you have to add the number of people in surrounding municipalities who head into Atlanta for work, sporting events, concerts, partying, and other things. The Census website has information on commuter-adjusted population here: https://www.census.gov/hhes/commutin...aytimepop.html

Atlanta's daytime population increases from 413,462 to 687,251, a 66.2% change, from commuters alone.

But since we are comparing cities within New York State, let's use another example. Albany, currently #5 in the NYS crime rankings, has a similar increase of 66.9% during work hours: https://www.census.gov/hhes/commutin...on%20Paper.pdf

Let's assume that Niagara Falls receives 10 million visitors per year (the range seems to be 6MM to 12MM for the American side of the Falls). This translates to a daily population increase of 27,397 from tourism. That is an increase of only 56.9%, exactly 10% less than Albany's population increase from daily commuters:

Niagara Falls
Population: 48,989
Daily Tourists: 27,397
Adjusted Population: 76,865
Percentage Increase: (76,865 - 48,989) / 48,989 = 56.9%

Albany
Population: 97,951*
Daily Commuters: 65,577
Adjusted Population 163,528
Percentage Increase: (163,528 - 97,951) / 97,951 = 66.9%

* The data used for Albany is a few years old, but is the most recent data available.

While this "adjusted population" calculation isn't an exact science, there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Niagara Falls and other tourist towns aren't the only cities with misleading population/crime statistics.
You missing commuters into Niagara Falls though that may work at the Park, Casino, county offices, private companies that are still within the city, etc. That probably pushes NF's daytime population to about 80,000 or so, for a city that averages 3 or 4 homicides a year and an assault and a half(if that)a day.
Niagara Falls, NY Crime and Crime Rate - USA.com™

New York Crime Index City Rank

Cities such as Binghamton, Troy, Schenectady and Utica are more similar to NF than Albany.

In terms of the census, even if other aren't aware of what goes into counting students, the census usually is, unless there is a slight change due to a true dorm location, for an example.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 10-29-2016 at 08:43 PM..
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