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This might very well be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Why would abortion be killing Buffalo when it is currently legal nationwide? Why do you think it affects this area more than Portland, Oregon or Chicago? You want to cut off abortions but you also do not want to help a single mother pay the expenses to raise the child until she can get on her feet ...... that will really help the crime rate. Planned Parenthood isn't just in WNY, they are across the country.
How exactly is gay marriage going to kill families in WNY? Personally, I fail to see how it has any bearing at all on my family.
Things that will make it worthwhile to have a family here are job prospects, affordable education & quality entertainment ..... not bigoted RW politics.
I agree, this thinking is very unintelligent from the root. I believe the arguement FOR abortion is rampant all over the O.P.'s comments.
1. Lower taxes across the board, especially on higher income people who actually have the ability to create jobs (Tom Golasono (sp?) is leaving because of the tax burden here)
2. Loosen restrictions on everything. Stop worrying about how much sugar intake I am getting. Stop restricting firearms out of existence in NY (I have a few firearms in NY, FAR more in Virginia, imagine the sales tax revenues that the state could have earned if I could have bought all my firearms here.
3. Make NY family friendly again: Implement Socially Conservative policies that attract normal families, and make it worthwhile to have a family here. No more paying taxes for others' welfare, or abortion through Planned Parenthood, and most importantly, stop gay marriage, which will kill families in New York.
That has got to be one of the most bigoted ignorant things I've read in a long time - and that says a lot.
1. Lowering taxes on the VERY WEALTY has been finally PROVEN to be a FAILURE. Let me repeat: LOWERING TAXES ON THE VERY WEALTHY HAS BEEN ALREADY PROVEN TO BE AN UTTER FAILURE.
Lowering taxes on the POOREST amonst us, while at the same time RAISING TAXES on the VERY WEALTHIEST amonst us has been PROVEN to be the ONLY thing that makes economies GROW. If people WHO CREATE THE WEALTH - the WORKERS - aren't PAID ENOUGH to AFFORD the things they MAKE, then the economy ALWAYS suffers.
2. Don't ever mention WHOLE COUNTRIES where VIOLENT CRIME is less - AND THEY STRICTLY ENFORCE GUN CONTROL LAWS!!!
3. I defy you to name HOW EXACTLY WILL GAY MARRIAGE RUIN YOUR MARRIAGE?!?!!!! I DARE you to NAME ONE THING!!! This is just plain IGNORANT BIGOTRY.
Moderator cut: personal attack
Last edited by bellafinzi; 06-21-2009 at 09:01 PM..
Reason: personal debates / attacks
1. Lowering taxes on the VERY WEALTY has been finally PROVEN to be a FAILURE. Let me repeat: LOWERING TAXES ON THE VERY WEALTHY HAS BEEN ALREADY PROVEN TO BE AN UTTER FAILURE.
Lowering taxes on the POOREST amonst us, while at the same time RAISING TAXES on the VERY WEALTHIEST amonst us has been PROVEN to be the ONLY thing that makes economies GROW. If people WHO CREATE THE WEALTH - the WORKERS - aren't PAID ENOUGH to AFFORD the things they MAKE, then the economy ALWAYS suffers.
2. Don't ever mention WHOLE COUNTRIES where VIOLENT CRIME is less - AND THEY STRICTLY ENFORCE GUN CONTROL LAWS!!!
3. I defy you to name HOW EXACTLY WILL GAY MARRIAGE RUIN YOUR MARRIAGE?
1. Look at countries like the UEA, Estonia, Ireland, Botswana, and Kuwait, where taxes have been lowered on the rich, their economies are booming. Now look at the economies of France, Japan, and Russia, their economoes are slumping.
Within the US, look at lower tax states like Tennessee, Texas, and Florida, they are dominating the economy and growing, while states like New York, Calfornia, and Pennsylvania shrink.
If we lowered taxes in Buffalo we could attract people again.
2. Australia recently passed massive anti-gun initiatives, they destroyed about 650,000 guns, and it has cost about $500 million. The murder rate is up 3.5%, the armed robbery rate is up 8.5%, and the rape rate is up 11%.
In all honesty look at one statistic: about 50% of murders are committed by black people (this isn't racism, it's the truth), and Southern Conservative states tend to be the ones that have the most lenient gun laws, therefore it stands to reason that states with large Black populations would have higher murder rates.
In 1994, the most comprehensive gun ban ever occurred, in the years following there were an average of 21,400 murders each years. Once the gun ban expired, that dropped to 16,400.
There is plenty of empirical evidence that guns to do not cause crime. There are many Buffalonians (that I know) who moved either into the country, or into PA. just so that they wouldn't have their right to bear arms infringed upon. Make Buffalo a gun friendly city, and the murderers and rapists will be too afraid to commit crimes, because they will know that their would-be victims might be armed and able to defend themselves.
3. I never said gay marriage would ruin my marriage, but it would truly harm the "family friendly" aspect of Buffalo.
1. Look at countries like the UEA, Estonia, Ireland, Botswana, and Kuwait, where taxes have been lowered on the rich, their economies are booming. Now look at the economies of France, Japan, and Russia, their economoes are slumping.
Within the US, look at lower tax states like Tennessee, Texas, and Florida, they are dominating the economy and growing, while states like New York, Calfornia, and Pennsylvania shrink.
If we lowered taxes in Buffalo we could attract people again.
2. Australia recently passed massive anti-gun initiatives, they destroyed about 650,000 guns, and it has cost about $500 million. The murder rate is up 3.5%, the armed robbery rate is up 8.5%, and the rape rate is up 11%.
In all honesty look at one statistic: about 50% of murders are committed by black people (this isn't racism, it's the truth), and Southern Conservative states tend to be the ones that have the most lenient gun laws, therefore it stands to reason that states with large Black populations would have higher murder rates.
In 1994, the most comprehensive gun ban ever occurred, in the years following there were an average of 21,400 murders each years. Once the gun ban expired, that dropped to 16,400.
There is plenty of empirical evidence that guns to do not cause crime. There are many Buffalonians (that I know) who moved either into the country, or into PA. just so that they wouldn't have their right to bear arms infringed upon. Make Buffalo a gun friendly city, and the murderers and rapists will be too afraid to commit crimes, because they will know that their would-be victims might be armed and able to defend themselves.
3. I never said gay marriage would ruin my marriage, but it would truly harm the "family friendly" aspect of Buffalo.
I'd love to see where you got your facts from. Please post your reference unless it's just you opinion. If it is your opinion, please state that it is.
First of all, the UEA and Kuwait need to thank Bush. Those are oil countries that have a strangle hold on the rest of the world.
"The government has sponsored many social welfare, public works, and development plans financed with oil and investment revenues. Among the benefits for Kuwaiti citizens are retirement income, marriage bonuses, housing loans, virtually guaranteed employment, free medical services, and education at all levels."
"The petroleum industry, which accounts for about 95% of Kuwait's export revenues, was severely damaged in the Persian Gulf War. However, by the end of 1992, the country had repaired nearly all the damage to its war-ravaged oil fields and its oil output was at about prewar levels. Huge amounts of natural gas complement Kuwait's oil and petrochemical production."
The UEA is oil based also, but as you stated, they seem to be weathering the storm (http://www.rossdawsonblog.com/weblog/archives/2009/05/the_state_of_th_1.html - broken link)
However, in an oil based economy, money is easy to come by to finance other developments. Estonia is doing okay, but it's not without it's problems either. As per Wikipedia:
"Estonia today is mainly influenced by developments in Germany, Finland and Sweden - the three main trade partners. The government recently increased greatly its spending on innovation. The prime minister of Estonian Reform Party has stated its goal of bringing Estonian GDP per capita into the TOP 5 of EU by 2022. Ireland is sometimes seen as a model for Estonian economic future. However, the GDP of Estonia decreased by 1.4% in the 2nd quarter of 2008, over 3% in the 3rd quarter of 2008, and over 9% in the 4rd quarter of 2008. The Estonian economy further contracted by 15.1% in the first quarter of 2009.[8][9] Low domestic and foreign demand have depressed the economy's overall output.[9] The Estonian economy's 33.7% industrial production drop was the sharpest decrease in industrial production in the entire European Union.[10]"
Even Botswana is in trouble. Botswana has an extremely good long-term growth record, based largely on diamonds. Now that gem sales are being affected by the global recession, the economy is in trouble. Seems no one is immune.
As far as lower taxes, boy are you correct! In Pittsburgh our taxes are extremely high and it seems as if we get NOTHING for our money. Where Buffalo would find some great ideas is to look toward Arizona for ways to use TAX money. (Not construction, we all know what the housing market is like there. I certainly do having lived in Scottsdale for 7 years.) However, the city is very good about where and how it spends its tax dollars.
Gun laws. Well, I don't carry a gun. I don't even own one. Here's my take on the gun situation: MOST murders/homicides happen because of two reasons. The first being gang/drug related and mostly confined to areas with low incomes and poorly educated citizens. The other being murders committed by people you know (out of anger, and had the gun not been around, most likely the murder would not have happened.) Shooting someone is much easier than stabbing or using your bare hands. Also, unless a gun is locked and loaded nearby, what good is it in an attack? If you have children, you must have it locked up in a safety case, unloaded and preferably in a room that is locked. SO what good is it for protection? NONE. Unfortunately, gun control has gone uncontrolled since the late 1970's and they has caused more deaths than they have prevented. No offense, but people in PA are very rednecky, and we have a high murder rate here - for the reasons I just stated. WHat is needed in my opinion is MOE police presence. Have you ever driven in Amherst/Williamsville? There is a cop on every corner. Do you know what the murder rate is in Amherst? Well, trust me - it's LOW. Like in NYC - more cops on the beat that inforce the laws is the only way to combat crime. Oh, and leagalize drugs like pot because I don't know many people who are high that want to go out and kill others. Alcohol is the "real" drug!
Now, I ask you. How could a gay friendly area possibly hurt the "family friendly aspect" of Buffalo? What does being gay have anything to do with Buffalo's economy? That's about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If someone is gay, wants to have a family and live around me, no problem! As long as they keep their property up like the rest of us, who cares what they do in the privacy of their own home? Being gay nowadays is SO non-issue.
As usual, your post is laughable. I'll let someone else respond to your vague, selective claims that places with regressive tax structures have "booming" economies, and get right to your arguments in favor of universal gun ownership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canerican
2. Australia recently passed massive anti-gun initiatives, they destroyed about 650,000 guns, and it has cost about $500 million. The murder rate is up 3.5%, the armed robbery rate is up 8.5%, and the rape rate is up 11%.
For those of you not in the know, this "recent" anti-gun initiative in Australia was 12 years ago (1997) and the "statistics" Canerican is trotting out were the subject of a moronic chain email at the time that has since been more than adequately debunked. It's hard to see how hashing out the results of a gun ban in Australia in 1997 will help us pass more effective gun legislation in Buffalo. The way Australia deals with gun ownership has little to do with the USA, let alone specifically Buffalo. But, even if we play along, your interpretation of the situation in Australia is completely bogus.
I'll defer to Snopes, which has a point by point rebuttal of the email that you apparently dug out of your inbox from ten years ago: snopes.com: Australian Guns Stats
Quote:
In all honesty look at one statistic: about 50% of murders are committed by black people (this isn't racism, it's the truth), and Southern Conservative states tend to be the ones that have the most lenient gun laws, therefore it stands to reason that states with large Black populations would have higher murder rates.
This ridiculous "correlation" only "stands to reason" if you believe that black people are intrinsically more apt to commit murder. This is, of course, a racist idea. I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make by throwing the "truth" about African-Americans in here, but it would be a lot more useful if you studied the individual circumstances in each state which cause murders to occur (by members of all races). Which brings us to -
Quote:
In 1994, the most comprehensive gun ban ever occurred, in the years following there were an average of 21,400 murders each years. Once the gun ban expired, that dropped to 16,400.
You must have made this one up on your own, because it's even less convincing (if that's possible) than the rest of your post.
The gun ban was from 1994 to 2004, right? Here are the statistics of homicides between 1990 and 2005 (Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide Trends in the United States: (http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm - broken link)). The second column is homicide rate per 100,000 people, the third is total estimated homicides.
So what story do these numbers tell us? Homicides (if not the homicide rate) were at an all-time high in the early 1990s, which, if memory serves, is part of what spurred the assault weapons ban. Contrary to what you imply, the passing of the gun ban in 1994 did not witness an increase in number of homicides or the homicide rate (both declined between 1994 and 1995). Both figures continued to drop until 1999/2000, at which point they leveled off.
In fact, if we do a little creative interpretation of your post, it could be read as reinforcing the effectiveness of the gun ban. As you say, the number of homicides in 1994 was above 20k and the homicide rate was about 9/100k. During the years of the gun ban, both number of homicides and the homicide rate dropped precipitously, to almost 16k and 5.5/100k, respectively. What's laughable is that even the statistics you cite seem to imply that the gun ban worked to decrease homicides! Didn't think that through, did ya?
Nevertheless, I'm not going to argue that the gun ban was effective legislation. It's not possible to explain the effect of legislation such as this only by looking at general statistics about the national murder rate and making a half-assed correlation. As an alternative, if we note that homicides were already declining in 1994 from the high point in 1991-1993 (and continued to decline from there on out) we might recall the early 90s crack epidemic (Crack epidemic (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which ravaged American cities with crime. You could argue that as crack waned during the later 90s, so too did the murder rate.
Of course, that interpretation cannot fully account for the decline in homicides over the past two decades. However, it's a lot less disingenuous and easier to support than your claim, that more guns equals less killing.
Quote:
There is plenty of empirical evidence that guns to do not cause crime. There are many Buffalonians (that I know) who moved either into the country, or into PA. just so that they wouldn't have their right to bear arms infringed upon. Make Buffalo a gun friendly city, and the murderers and rapists will be too afraid to commit crimes, because they will know that their would-be victims might be armed and able to defend themselves.
There are plenty of creatively interpreted statistics that you can deploy on internet message boards to show, well, anything you want about gun ownership. However, your assertions clearly do not follow from even a cursory look at the statistics. Please stop propagating right wing talking points from 10 years ago.
Quote:
3. I never said gay marriage would ruin my marriage, but it would truly harm the "family friendly" aspect of Buffalo.
No, with gay marriage Buffalo would merely become more "friendly" to other kinds of families.
Of course, beyond your awful reasoning, your contention that these broad legislative movements would benefit the city of Buffalo belies your lack of knowledge (or interest) in what's going on in WNY. If you think restrictive gun legislation or the prospect of gay marriage are key roadblocks to Buffalo's comeback, you know nothing about our region, and you might as well keep your advice to yourself.
But the parts I read up to: I am not saying that being Black makes you inherently more likely to commit crimes... it just happens, not quite sure why, your guess is probably as good as mine.
Fine, well, in the days since Heller v. DC, the gun crime rate has dropped. Interesting there too. And the Snopes article actually confirms my statistics as accurate, although, they did the typical Liberal warping of the numbers...
Quote:
No, with gay marriage Buffalo would merely become more "friendly" to other kinds of families.
Two men raising a son... that's a sitcom, not a family. I am honestly glad that some states (many in fact) are starting to act and banning gay adoption, no child has done anything bad enough to be brought up by deviants.
That's as far as I read in your post... Sorry, I have a job to get back to.
And the Snopes article actually confirms my statistics as accurate, although, they did the typical Liberal warping of the numbers...
No, good try, but what the article actually does is expose the disingenuous use of statistics in this particular right wing talking point. The accuracy of the statistics you quoted is pretty flimsy, actually, but that doesn't matter. Statistics are often used to mislead rather than inform, and that's on display fairly transparently in your original post.
Here's the salient passage from the Snopes article, which you also apparently did not bother to read. In reference to a supposed increase in homicides, Snopes writes: "This statistic is misleading because it reflects only the absolute number of homicides rather than the homicide rate...the overall homicide rate in Australia has changed little over the past decade and actually dipped slightly after the 1997 gun buy-back program." Looking at per capita figures rather than raw numbers is not "Liberal warping," it is a basic requirement of any statistical analysis.
The first year results of the gun buyback in Australia (which you humorously thought was this year, but was actually 1998) are less important than the long-term effects. An honest look at Australia before and after the gun buyback indicates it was not particularly effective, since the murder rate was already declining gradually. However, your assertion that the gun buyback essentially declared open season on law abiding citizens is still laughable, because the murder rate DID NOT INCREASE AFTER THE GUN BUYBACK.
The other thing the Snopes article provides, through some basic contextualization, is that the paradigm of gun ownership and gun violence in Australia is pretty much irrelevant to such matters in the USA. To that I would add, pretty much irrelevant to such matters in WNY.
Quote:
Two men raising a son... that's a sitcom, not a family. I am honestly glad that some states (many in fact) are starting to act and banning gay adoption, no child has done anything bad enough to be brought up by deviants.
The only thing that's funny are your laughably outdated opinions. If we're trying to come up with a sitcom pilot, I think you'd be great as a modern-day Archie Bunker.
Quote:
That's as far as I read in your post... Sorry, I have a job to get back to.
That's fine, because frankly I didn't write it for you. I wrote it for anyone who might come across this thread and think your moronic post sounded kinda reasonable. Every point you made about guns is completely disingenuous if you do a tiny bit of research. But it's always easier to just parrot Rush & co, huh? Don't bother reading this post either.
The first year results of the gun buyback in Australia (which you humorously thought was this year, but was actually 1998)
Really? Where did I say that?
Reader's Digest version of mycrows: All guns are bad, they must be taken away, because some people have committed crimes with them.
If you are even slightly Libertarian leaning, believe in the Constitution, or freedom, avoid Buffalo like the plague. These are the kind of people that you have to "reason" with.
I would encourage anyone who is looking at Buffalo, turn 180 degrees, and walk the other way. This town is the worst place in the world. I have lived in four cities before this, and by far the trashiest people I have met in my life are from here. Look at the homes, half of them are run down, no one has any self-pride here, all they care about is collecting their welfare checks, and watching the Bills lose another season.
I'm not going to continue your gun debate. You have your views (which King George would have been rather fond of), I have mine (which the framers of the Constitution were fond of), and we can leave it at that. Gun aren't the leading factor in crimes in this country, Blacks are (yes, most crimes in Buffalo, and America do involve Blacks, that's just a statistic, not racism).
So that's it. If you want to talk about how opening up Main St. will transform Buffalo from the craphole that it already is, be my guest. But it won't. My guess, when I come back to Buffalo in 20 years it will be a town of 120,000, and there will still be no jobs. You guys have done a bang up job screwing up one of the premier cities in the country, keep up the great work!
Last edited by Canerican; 06-22-2009 at 01:54 PM..
2. Australia recently passed massive anti-gun initiatives, they destroyed about 650,000 guns, and it has cost about $500 million. The murder rate is up 3.5%, the armed robbery rate is up 8.5%, and the rape rate is up 11%.
You certainly gave the implication that this was something that had happened in the recent past. You said the murder rate "is up," implying that since the law (which you did not give a date for, because you thought it was recent) murder rates have climbed. Simply not true. As of today it is not "up" by any measurement.
With a little creativity, you could say that the there were about 3% more murders in the year after the gun buyback. This was the source of your mistake. You were reading information that said total murders increased in the wake of the gun buyback. Potentially true, but misleading, because the murder rate did not increase in either in the short term or the long term in after this law. In fact, the latest numbers for homicides in Australia show a decrease even in total number of homicides and, of course, the murder rate is down as well.
Either you were mixed up or you intentionally lied, your choice.
Reader's Digest version of mycrows: All guns are bad, they must be taken away, because some people have committed crimes with them.
Hilarious. Show me where I argued for stricter gun laws. All I did was expose the horrible reasoning in your posts on the matter, and question what this issue had to do with improving the city of Buffalo.
And don't make fun of my trashy, run-down home. As soon as I get my welfare check I'm going to clean it up, I promise!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canerican
I'm not going to continue your gun debate.
Because you're not capable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canerican
You have your views (which King George would have been rather fond of), I have mine (which the framers of the Constitution were fond of), and we can leave it at that.
What, then, are my views on gun ownership? Here are a couple of quotes from me on the topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycrows
Nevertheless, I'm not going to argue that the gun ban was effective legislation. It's not possible to explain the effect of legislation such as this only by looking at general statistics about the national murder rate and making a half-assed correlation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycrows
An honest look at Australia before and after the gun buyback indicates it was not particularly effective...
If you'd bothered to read my posts, you would not try to pigeonhole me into a hysterical liberal trying to take away your assault rifle collection. Or maybe you would. That's easier than actually engaging the points I made, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canerican
So that's it. If you want to talk about how opening up Main St. will transform Buffalo from the craphole that it already is, be my guest. But it won't. My guess, when I come back to Buffalo in 20 years it will be a town of 120,000, and there will still be no jobs. You guys have done a bang up job screwing up one of the premier cities in the country, keep up the great work!
As a matter of fact, I am not a big proponent of opening Main St to cars, although I have refrained from criticizing other posters on this topic because their posts come from a genuine urge to improve the city. Yours, on the other hand, are increasingly divorced from reality and display a negative, racist, homophobic point of view on our city that I will continue to criticize every chance I get.
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