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Seriously. Look into Bellingham. Population is about 80k. I don't know if they have poetry slams, but it has a similar vibe to Burlington, just a lot hillier. The mountain and ocean views are gorgeous. The downtown area is hoppin'. The Fairhaven area is quaint. Both cities have great local music. Both have great beer. There are some beautiful parks in the city and hiking and winter sports not far outside the city. It's 2 hours from Seattle, 1 hour from Vancouver. It's about an hour from the San Juan Island ferry.
Bellingham also prides itself on being green and local foods/goods are HUGE there. I also think there are more jobs in that area than there are around Burlington. I don't know what the cost of living is like there, but I know that CO has a relatively high cost of living.
The weather is cool. I was there in late June and the warmest it got was 72. It spent most of its time between 65 and 70 during the day. It doesn't usually get very sunny. There are always clouds in the sky, and there's always a chance of rain, though it's not as bad as the Seattle stereotype makes it out to be.
Seattle had more bicyclists than I've ever seen. Bellingham was similar. Many people commute by bike, which is pretty hardcore considering the hills. But the city prides itself on healthy living.
Location: Philadelphia, PA (Wanting to move) --Burlington, VT, Asheville, NC, Boulder, CO?
129 posts, read 404,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68vette
I saw that you crossed Boulder off your list, but the Pearl Street mall is just about identical to the Church Street Marketplace. I believe the same planner that layed out that area of Boulder did Burlington as well. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence, but many of the streets in the two cities also share the same name. If you love Burlington or Vermont for that matter, Colorado should be high on your list. Many of the things Vermont prides itself on are also what Colorado prides itself on, such as quality of life and health. It's usually ranked as the best state in the country to live in.
The Marketplace is really what makes Burlington. If this type of layout (Pedestrian mall) is what you desire you can also check out places like, the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville, Virginia; Ann Arbor, Michigan; Oak Park, Illinois; the Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica, California; the Buffalo Place Main Street Pedestrian Mall in Buffalo, New York; Ithaca Commons in Ithaca, New York; St. Charles, Missouri; Salem, Massachusetts; Ped Mall in Iowa City, Iowa; Lincoln Road in Miami Beach, Florida; the Fulton Mall in Fresno, California; the 16th Street Mall in Denver, Colorado; State Street in Madison, Wisconsin; Nicollet Mall in Minneapolis, Minnesota; The Grove in Los Angeles, California; Fort Street Mall in Honolulu, Hawaii; City Center in Oakland, California; Walnut Street in Des Moines, Iowa, Downtown Crossing and Faneuil Hall/Quincy Market in Boston; Washington Street Mall in Cape May, New Jersey; The Downtown Cumberland Mall in Cumberland, Maryland;and many others. Typically these downtown pedestrian malls were three or four linear blocks simply blocked off to private street traffic, with fountains, benches, sittable planters, bollards, playgrounds, interfaces to public transit and other amenities installed to attract shoppers. There are at least 75 pedestrian mall in the country. You can do a google search for pedestrian malls to pull many of them up. They are in large cities and small.
LOL, I never thought of myself loving the "mall" kind of layout, but I guess you do have a point... either that, or it's the densely populated "5 colleges" in one city! ...or it's the historic look of Burlington... mixed with the progression. At any rate, it's funny you should mention Boulder because I looked up some pictures of it a few months ago and said, "Wow, Pearl St." area is JUST like Burlington! Haha... the only thing about Boulder, however, is that I heard it's very expensive and that "talk" there is always about hiking, skiing, etc.
While I have never been to Boulder, I know that Burlington compared to Boulder based off what people have said about both places seems more green? ...in the literal sense lol. Is it? ie, more trees, progression, softer "hippie" vibe? ...liberal/political?
I have added Boulder back to my list, but I am not sure it's the place for me right this very moment. It also doesn't (correct me if I'm wrong, which I could be) seem to have any CODA or ACOA meetings ...which I need right now. I'm honestly looking for a community... a place with a real sense of community... that values education, learning, progress, spirituality, health, air/water, trees... just quality of living, but is really into community.
I heard Portland, OR is into community and has a ton of nonprofit social programs... ie, troubled teens, homeless, etc. I've never been there, either, but it's a place to check out.
Burlington honestly may be my utopia... the closest I will get anyway. I like it a lot (obviously) but I am wanting a place --at this particular time in my life, with more public transit options (trolly, lightrail, etc) and that has poetry slam competitions... and, as mentioned earlier ACOA and CODA. Those are the things that in my life, right now, I need. I need community and those things...
How would you describe the "look" of Burlington and the "design?"
Burlington would be awesome if it had water fountains for people to drink out of! I wonder if Portland, OR is one of the only liberal, progressive areas with them?
The cities I have considered:
Portland, OR
Eugene, OR
Northampton, MA
Burlington, VT
Bellingham, WA
Boulder, CO
I crossed off Asheville, NC because I do not like humidity the least bit. I imagine Charlotesville is also the same way. I would like environmental friendly, political, and progressive.
Location: Philadelphia, PA (Wanting to move) --Burlington, VT, Asheville, NC, Boulder, CO?
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Runaway-
Is Bellingham one of those places with a pedestrian mall, or no? Also, I am NOT interested in Portland, Maine, but I am wondering if it too is considered the "pedestrian mall" layout?
Burlington is in all honesty perfect for me except I would ideally like to try out public transportation options, and Burlington only has the bus system lol I would like to learn and teach myself how to ride in a slightly larger city (up to 100K).
And I need poetry slams right now... at this moment in my life, that is a need. I also (very important) need CODA and ACOA meetings.
Can you look into those things for me in terms of Bellingham? ...especially the poetry slam competitions?
Have you visited Burlington?
Yeah, the weather in Burlington AND Bellingham seems perfect. I cannot stand weather hotter than 85 and would prefer to stay in the 70's over the summer... due to my thyroid condition It just makes me miserable... I do not like humidity or heat. Philadelphia (where I am now) is ridiculous; I am miserable here.
And I can't have a place that has a lot of sun... Philly is entirely too sunny for me. Burlington (sun/weather-wise) was great! Seems Bellingham compares to that.
What other places? See the list on previous post... and/or any new progressive, liberal places similar to Burlington/Boulder.
Is Bellingham one of those places with a pedestrian mall, or no? Also, I am NOT interested in Portland, Maine, but I am wondering if it too is considered the "pedestrian mall" layout?
Burlington is in all honesty perfect for me except I would ideally like to try out public transportation options, and Burlington only has the bus system lol I would like to learn and teach myself how to ride in a slightly larger city (up to 100K).
And I need poetry slams right now... at this moment in my life, that is a need. I also (very important) need CODA and ACOA meetings.
Can you look into those things for me in terms of Bellingham? ...especially the poetry slam competitions?
Have you visited Burlington?
Yeah, the weather in Burlington AND Bellingham seems perfect. I cannot stand weather hotter than 85 and would prefer to stay in the 70's over the summer... due to my thyroid condition It just makes me miserable... I do not like humidity or heat. Philadelphia (where I am now) is ridiculous; I am miserable here.
And I can't have a place that has a lot of sun... Philly is entirely too sunny for me. Burlington (sun/weather-wise) was great! Seems Bellingham compares to that.
What other places? See the list on previous post... and/or any new progressive, liberal places similar to Burlington/Boulder.
Thanks!
Bellingham only has a bus system, but that's pretty much all you'll find in the cities with populations that you describe. The bus system is used quite a bit there. There's a huge central bus hub in the downtown area. IIRC, it's bigger than the central bus hub in Providence, which has about 100k more people than Bellingham.
There is no pedestrian mall that I remember seeing, but drivers are extremely cognizant of pedestrians. In fact, drivers in WA, at least between Seattle and Bellingham don't drive more than 5 mph over the speed limit. I felt like the fastest driver there and I won't do more than 10 over. I don't know of the cops are strict or if it's to conserve gas, but on the highways when the speed limit is 70, they do 70-75. When it's 60, they do 60-65, no faster. And in town, they tend to keep to the speed limit as well. Because of the large number of bicyclists, they are generally safer drivers as well. So the need for a pedestrian mall isn't really there because the city is extremely pedestrian friendly. There are a lot of shops in the downtown area and the Fairhaven area. While downtown tends to be more business and gritty, Fairhaven is more artsy/hippie. It reminded me of some of the small tourist towns of New England (like Newport or Provincetown).
I don't know about CODA or ACOA, but their websites seem to have search functions for meeting locations. As for poetry slams, I would try Googling it. The guy I know there isn't into that sort of thing, so I don't think he'd know much about it.
Have you considered Providence? It has many of the same values, and definitely has poetry slams. It's a bit bigger and probably more "urban" than I think you're looking for though. It might also be too humid for you, but it's worth checking out. It's becoming more and more progressive and green as time goes on. I may be looking to leave, but that doesn't mean I don't like the city. I just need a smaller place with a different vibe. I've enjoyed my time here, but need something different.
When I lived in Bellingham, they had poetry readings and music every Tuesday night at Three Trees Coffee House. A lot of my friends were into that sort of thing and there was a big poet community, so I assume there'd be much more poetry events around town that I didn't hear of. I don't know about any competitions, though.
Location: Philadelphia, PA (Wanting to move) --Burlington, VT, Asheville, NC, Boulder, CO?
129 posts, read 404,346 times
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You know, honestly, I think I am putting too much emphasis on "place." I think I'm looking outside too much for happiness. While I think the outside, ie: our surroundings can definitely have an effect on us and shape us in different ways, ie: depending on the cultural values, I think that happiness needs to come from within. I am more or less saying this to myself and talking aloud lol because I have realized just how "crazy" I have driven myself in this pursuit of the modern-day "utopia."
I think I need to try and back off for a while and derive some clarity internally... I cannot seem to derive that right now, and seem to be in a cloud/fuzz. Have you guys ever felt that way?
Not to let my stuff all hang out on this forum, lol, but I just feel like maybe I am taking all of this too far and thinking that a place is super duper important, when in reality, though it can shape us, it cannot break us. I need to trust that my soul knows best...
I am just having a really hard time right now gaining clarity in the situation that I'm in.
I would be interested in hearing about your experiences of having to make difficult (on the soul-level) decisions.
You know, honestly, I think I am putting too much emphasis on "place." I think I'm looking outside too much for happiness. While I think the outside, ie: our surroundings can definitely have an effect on us and shape us in different ways, ie: depending on the cultural values, I think that happiness needs to come from within. I am more or less saying this to myself and talking aloud lol because I have realized just how "crazy" I have driven myself in this pursuit of the modern-day "utopia."
I think I need to try and back off for a while and derive some clarity internally... I cannot seem to derive that right now, and seem to be in a cloud/fuzz. Have you guys ever felt that way?
Not to let my stuff all hang out on this forum, lol, but I just feel like maybe I am taking all of this too far and thinking that a place is super duper important, when in reality, though it can shape us, it cannot break us. I need to trust that my soul knows best...
I am just having a really hard time right now gaining clarity in the situation that I'm in.
I would be interested in hearing about your experiences of having to make difficult (on the soul-level) decisions.
Thanks!
I'm a believer in life working itself out. If it was meant to be, it will be. Just go with the flow.
Remember, there is no such thing as "utopia". It's not something you can find. It's something you have to make for yourself by making the best of every situation. Sure, some places will be better for that than others, but the harder you think about it and the more difficult you make this decision to be, the less likely you're gonna be able to make your own utopia.
From the sounds of it, Burlington is your utopia, but because it lacks poetry slams, you won't go back. Perhaps you need to move back and start up a regular poetry slam. That goes with making your own utopia.
LOL, I never thought of myself loving the "mall" kind of layout, but I guess you do have a point... either that, or it's the densely populated "5 colleges" in one city! ...or it's the historic look of Burlington... mixed with the progression. At any rate, it's funny you should mention Boulder because I looked up some pictures of it a few months ago and said, "Wow, Pearl St." area is JUST like Burlington! Haha... the only thing about Boulder, however, is that I heard it's very expensive and that "talk" there is always about hiking, skiing, etc.
While I have never been to Boulder, I know that Burlington compared to Boulder based off what people have said about both places seems more green? ...in the literal sense lol. Is it? ie, more trees, progression, softer "hippie" vibe? ...liberal/political?
I have added Boulder back to my list, but I am not sure it's the place for me right this very moment. It also doesn't (correct me if I'm wrong, which I could be) seem to have any CODA or ACOA meetings ...which I need right now. I'm honestly looking for a community... a place with a real sense of community... that values education, learning, progress, spirituality, health, air/water, trees... just quality of living, but is really into community.
I heard Portland, OR is into community and has a ton of nonprofit social programs... ie, troubled teens, homeless, etc. I've never been there, either, but it's a place to check out.
Burlington honestly may be my utopia... the closest I will get anyway. I like it a lot (obviously) but I am wanting a place --at this particular time in my life, with more public transit options (trolly, lightrail, etc) and that has poetry slam competitions... and, as mentioned earlier ACOA and CODA. Those are the things that in my life, right now, I need. I need community and those things...
How would you describe the "look" of Burlington and the "design?"
Burlington would be awesome if it had water fountains for people to drink out of! I wonder if Portland, OR is one of the only liberal, progressive areas with them?
The cities I have considered:
Portland, OR
Eugene, OR
Northampton, MA
Burlington, VT
Bellingham, WA
Boulder, CO
I crossed off Asheville, NC because I do not like humidity the least bit. I imagine Charlotesville is also the same way. I would like environmental friendly, political, and progressive.
CODA or ACOA meetings are located in Denver and a few other places. I can not tell you off hand if there are any in Boulder, but Denver is about a 30-40 min drive and the meetings are held every night. Property and goods may be higher priced in Boulder, but the incomes are much higher than what you will find in Burlington for the most part. My childhood best friend lived in Boulder for about ten years and loved it. He moved back to the east coast when his father became ill and outside of family and friends, he hated coming back. Boulder is like Burlington in many regards. We are talk do all the same outdoor activities. During the winter it's snowboarding and sking while the summer includes hiking, biking, etc.
As I mentioned, Burlington is nothing special outside of the marketplace and the lake. It's an older city with some nice architecture, but there is not much for public transportation, it's expensive with higher sales tax, food tax, one of the most expensive rental markets per income. The music scene is good for a city its size, but there is little to offer as far as museums or science. We do have a membership to the ECHO Lake Aquarium and Science Center, but it is very small and the benefit of membership is to go to other major aquariums and science centers is the US.
I read your last post and saw that you are not wanting to emphasis on a place. I think that's a wise choice if the place does not have everything or most of what you are looking for. What many people find after they move somewhere is they were looking at an area from a tourist point of view. When you have to live and work, it is a very different point of view. Before I moved to Burlington, I thought it was the greatest area. Don't get me wrong it is a nice city, but living here we do very little in Burlington. We consider Church Street an expensive tourist area. No fault on the merchants, they pay a very high rent and have to pass that cost on to the consumer. On occasion we will eat in a resturaunt in town, but everything can be done cheaper outside of Burlington. You need to follow your heart. If where you are now is working for you, then don't put undue stress in your life during these times. Cities and towns will always remain where they are. If things work better for you in the future then make your move at that time.
Location: Philadelphia, PA (Wanting to move) --Burlington, VT, Asheville, NC, Boulder, CO?
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Thank you both for your response. Just to clarify by the way, I am currently living in Philadelphia and have been living here since April.
I have actually thought about moving back to Burlington and creating a poetry slam... that would be something of interest to me.
I am really starting to dislike the humidity... (in Philly). I am realizing, since having moved to Philly, that heat and humidity kill me... I cannot handle it. It may be due to my thryoid disorder. At any rate, I don't recall (I could be wrong) ever feeling uncomfortable (physically) in Burlington due to weather...
I am wondering if Portland and Eugene, OR have heavy humidity? If so, I will not be able to handle it... also, I heard Boulder does not have issues with humidity.
I am trying to focus less on the city and cultivate a more "living in the present" attitude... but it's hard when I feel trapped by the humidity where I am here in Philly... does that make sense? I do not even want to go outside, even now, in August, due to the humidity! I miss the outdoors... I love the outdoors... just being able to walk and go to parks... exercise. I don't do anything here in Philly but stay inside because I'm miserable. I'm not inspired here.
I am sure that I can try and make Philly work, at least temporarily, and I definitely know there are poetry slams here, but they're not within walking distance. A walkable city is very important to me... it's one of the top criteria for where I'd like to live... at any rate, I think that finding a job will help me, too... I have been trying, but due to being unfocused as a result of not knowing where I should go/be, I have not been successful.
I have however been offered several offers and declined them for various reasons. At any rate, it all comes down to knowing what is best for me, in my heart, and unfortunately I cannot gain the clarity needed right now to be able to make that decision... I am trying to be in the moment, but it's usually nature that helps me do that, and at the very least I cannot get outside here because of the humidity...
Is it the northern states that have less humidity?
Can anyone share their experience of Philadelphia with me?
I would also still be interested in your wisdom... ie, struggles and triumphs.
There is less humidity in the west. It's mostly desert out there. Colorado is that way. It's a pretty dry state. The northwest has more humidity than CO, but it doesn't get as hot as it does in New England so the humidity doesn't feel as bad.
Northern New England has less humidity than the rest of the northeast, but it's still humid when compared to CO.
You should consider posting in the forums for Boulder, Portland, and Seattle. You're more likely to get better info about those areas in those forums.
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...which I need right now. I'm honestly looking for a community... a place with a real sense of community... that values education, learning, progress, spirituality, health, air/water, trees... just quality of living, but is really into community. 
