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You're contradicting yourself.
I find a lot of that sort of attitude towards minimum wage workers, the idea that a trained monkey can do it, and in the next breath a complaint about how awful they are at it. So would it be fair to say that doing it and doing it well does take at least some skill?
i'm not contradicting myself at all.
most high school students can't do basic math without a calculator and most fast food workers are even worse at it than high school students.that's not remotely a contradiction.Almost any time I have seen a cashier enter the wrong amount into the register they need a calculator or a pen and paper to get it right, and it usually takes them a few times to do so.
a trained monkey basically can do what they do.that doens't mean a trained monkey can do 10 things well at once like you think most fast food workers do (which is an absolute joke)
have you actually ever been to a fast food place?most of them are slow,inefficient, mess up orders constantly and can't do basic math. and those are the ones that are trying to do their jobs instead of standing around joking and cursing with their friends.
everyone once in a while in a fast food place you'll find someone who actually is fast efficient and smart.and almost every single time I have seen this has been a high school or college student who either won't be working there long or will be managing the place soon(and don't tell me I'm contradicting myself- I didn't say all high school students are terrible at math- some are good at it.)
to answer the bolded- if a 14 year old can do your job, in many cases better than you then no it doesn't take much skill at all.doing it and doing with well is extremely rare amongst fast food workers, and even then 15 an hour is really pushing it.
again if these people really were worth as much as they think then franchise owners would be making themselves money hand over fist and everyone would want to own a franchise.
i'm sure there are some fast food workers who are actually worth 15 an hour bc of how much they produce(not because of how hard it is to live off min wage, it's hard supporting kids on min wage and all these other reason these delusional people are giving for wanting that much money) but they are few and far between. i've seen a lot more who frankly are so useless they are overpaid even at min wage.
most of these franchises make 50-100k a year, and the owners have bought themselves a job in which they themselves put in a ton of hours and are taking on the finacial risk. i'll be conservative and say let's pretend mcdonalds is only open from 7am-9pm and average 4 workers an hour. bump them all up to 15 an hour and including social security etc paid on their behalf, it now costs an extra 40 an hour for employes, which is 560 dollars a day and 204,400 dollars a year.Where the hell is this extra 204,400 dollars a year supposed to come from on a business making 50-100k a year?And if you say by raising prices- well most of these owners aren't idiots. if they could be charging a lot more money for their food they would be and they would make making 3-6 times what they already are making.considering they like money and aren't idiots it's pretty safe to say they can't just raise prices to make an extra 204,400 dollars and year and stay in business. and i really am being overly conserative with regards to how many worker hours a day most mcdonalds have.
Last edited by bxlefty23; 12-09-2013 at 10:44 PM..
It makes you wonder, if they are worth more in the marketplace , why don't they quit or not apply for the jobs in the first place? .. .
That would take initiative, and if they had some, they would not be flipping burgers at that age, year in and year out. A tiny portion are transients who previously had better jobs, but I am talking about the long-term, never did a more skilled job than burger-flipping types.
No, never, I'm just talking out my ....
I did my stint in fast food during high school, just like a lot of other people. Guess I'm not one of the dumb ones since I moved up in ranks AND can make change without having to use my fingers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23
.that doens't mean a trained monkey can do 10 things well at once like you think most fast food workers do (which is an absolute joke)
? I think you are confusing me with another poster
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23
most high school students can't do basic math without a calculator and most fast food workers are even worse at it than high school students.
And the recurring theme is that somehow these unskilled fast food workers are somehow supposed to better themselves into a more appropriate job. I have yet to see anyone who keeps repeating this come up with an actual solution. How is someone who is too 'dumb' for third grade math supposed to go on to higher education, how do they go to trade school and support themselves on that minimum wage they earn?
What exactly do you want to do with the people who just don't have what it takes to 'better themselves' through more training or education? Let them starve, turn to crime, continue to live off welfare, what?
What exactly do you want to do with the people who just don't have what it takes to 'better themselves' through more training or education? Let them starve, turn to crime, continue to live off welfare, what?
More than 1 job, and a very frugal lifestyle, the only necessities are food, clothing, and shelter. Everything else is optional.
No, never, I'm just talking out my ....
I did my stint in fast food during high school, just like a lot of other people. Guess I'm not one of the dumb ones since I moved up in ranks AND can make change without having to use my fingers.
? I think you are confusing me with another poster
And the recurring theme is that somehow these unskilled fast food workers are somehow supposed to better themselves into a more appropriate job. I have yet to see anyone who keeps repeating this come up with an actual solution. How is someone who is too 'dumb' for third grade math supposed to go on to higher education, how do they go to trade school and support themselves on that minimum wage they earn?
What exactly do you want to do with the people who just don't have what it takes to 'better themselves' through more training or education? Let them starve, turn to crime, continue to live off welfare, what?
I agree this is part of the problem. Also academics view situations from their point of view, and I think it's hard for them to imagine in their wildest dreams that there are people out there that have absolutely no interest in college...even if it's totally free.
Pretty much anyone can go to college (Community College) for practically free especially if they make little money-- prices are already low without subsidies.
I do think we should still keep education opportunities as open as possible. But it's not realistic to think everyone will want to go to school.
These people want to stay at their jobs and make double the money for the same work.
i'm not contradicting myself at all.
most high school students can't do basic math without a calculator and most fast food workers are even worse at it than high school students.that's not remotely a contradiction.Almost any time I have seen a cashier enter the wrong amount into the register they need a calculator or a pen and paper to get it right, and it usually takes them a few times to do so.
a trained monkey basically can do what they do.that doens't mean a trained monkey can do 10 things well at once like you think most fast food workers do (which is an absolute joke)
have you actually ever been to a fast food place?most of them are slow,inefficient, mess up orders constantly and can't do basic math. and those are the ones that are trying to do their jobs instead of standing around joking and cursing with their friends.
everyone once in a while in a fast food place you'll find someone who actually is fast efficient and smart.and almost every single time I have seen this has been a high school or college student who either won't be working there long or will be managing the place soon(and don't tell me I'm contradicting myself- I didn't say all high school students are terrible at math- some are good at it.)
to answer the bolded- if a 14 year old can do your job, in many cases better than you then no it doesn't take much skill at all.doing it and doing with well is extremely rare amongst fast food workers, and even then 15 an hour is really pushing it.
again if these people really were worth as much as they think then franchise owners would be making themselves money hand over fist and everyone would want to own a franchise.
i'm sure there are some fast food workers who are actually worth 15 an hour bc of how much they produce(not because of how hard it is to live off min wage, it's hard supporting kids on min wage and all these other reason these delusional people are giving for wanting that much money) but they are few and far between. i've seen a lot more who frankly are so useless they are overpaid even at min wage.
most of these franchises make 50-100k a year, and the owners have bought themselves a job in which they themselves put in a ton of hours and are taking on the finacial risk. i'll be conservative and say let's pretend mcdonalds is only open from 7am-9pm and average 4 workers an hour. bump them all up to 15 an hour and including social security etc paid on their behalf, it now costs an extra 40 an hour for employes, which is 560 dollars a day and 204,400 dollars a year.Where the hell is this extra 204,400 dollars a year supposed to come from on a business making 50-100k a year?And if you say by raising prices- well most of these owners aren't idiots. if they could be charging a lot more money for their food they would be and they would make making 3-6 times what they already are making.considering they like money and aren't idiots it's pretty safe to say they can't just raise prices to make an extra 204,400 dollars and year and stay in business. and i really am being overly conserative with regards to how many worker hours a day most mcdonalds have.
How will that calculation go if Minimum wage is raised to 10 dollars per hour. Extra 10 dollars an hour for employees. 140 dollars a day. Price rise of merely 10 cents on a cheeseburger will recover that. of course the competitors will also ahve to raise the prices.
How will that calculation go if Minimum wage is raised to 10 dollars per hour. Extra 10 dollars an hour for employees. 140 dollars a day. Price rise of merely 10 cents on a cheeseburger will recover that. of course the competitors will also ahve to raise the prices.
How do you calculate it's would only be 10cents more per cheeseburger?..
No, never, I'm just talking out my ....
I did my stint in fast food during high school, just like a lot of other people. Guess I'm not one of the dumb ones since I moved up in ranks AND can make change without having to use my fingers.
? I think you are confusing me with another poster
And the recurring theme is that somehow these unskilled fast food workers are somehow supposed to better themselves into a more appropriate job. I have yet to see anyone who keeps repeating this come up with an actual solution. How is someone who is too 'dumb' for third grade math supposed to go on to higher education, how do they go to trade school and support themselves on that minimum wage they earn?
What exactly do you want to do with the people who just don't have what it takes to 'better themselves' through more training or education? Let them starve, turn to crime, continue to live off welfare, what?
"How is someone who is too 'dumb' for third grade math supposed to go on to higher education, how do they go to trade school and support themselves on that minimum wage they earn?"
They do not, that is why they will remain poor.
"What exactly do you want to do with the people who just don't have what it takes to 'better themselves' through more training or education? Let them starve, turn to crime, continue to live off welfare, what?"
Let them keep doing what they are doing; working low wage jobs because that is all they are capable of doing. If they put them self in a poor financial situation, that is the result of their poor decisions, and they should take the burden of these decisions.
Instead of harping about how they should get paid more, the questions should be why does their current pay not go far. Minimum wage has almost doubled in 20 years, yet we are still at the same rate of poverty, no one is magically becoming better off when minimum wage goes up, however, companies do look at off shoring and automation when it does.
This is a global labor market, the only reason fast food and retail has not been outsourced or automated is because no one has figured out how to yet. So keep raising those wages, and you will see more innovation come to remove workers.
Some costs that need to be addressed as to why it is difficult to live on minimum wage; healthcare, housing, child care, transportation. Address those issues, and you will solve a whole lot of problems.
I think the idea is that these jobs aren't intended for people to live on. I mean, if every job out there has to pay a living wage... then where are people with no experience and no education, and who are bad at working supposed to get a start or earn extra money?
A system that makes the minimum wage high enough to live on independently, prices out young or incompetent workers. It basically means you have to be able to perform your job at the level of someone who is capable of living independently. This would normally be a fairly competent, well-rounded person with a year of experience under their belt, early 20s.
But it really sucks for someone who already lives with other people and needs experience to reach a point where they can be worth a living wage. Demanding that a living wage be the lowest that can be paid, prevents anyone who isn't ALREADY worth that much from working their way up to it.
I sometimes feel like people don't think about that, and assume that even as a new worker, they deserve enough money to be able to live independently. But what actually happens is that since you take away the option of hiring someone who is incompetent at a low wage, they insist on hiring the best person they can get... and that means all the inferior workers have no opportunity.
People don't seem to understand that we're not as well-off a country as we were during the 70s and 80s, and that people are going to have to live with their families or in communal living situations in order to get by. We can't afford to have millions of individuals living on their own and maintaining their cars anymore. You can if you manage to work your way up the ladder, but it's not something that every citizen can just expect. Why does everyone keep trying to bring back that unsustainable lifestyle and making things harder on the unemployed?
It's actually harder on the employed as well, because they'll just try to hire fewer people and rush/overwork them instead of hiring the number they need.
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