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Old 07-23-2015, 07:26 AM
 
397 posts, read 308,925 times
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So, I'm not sure if this is the right place to vent but it seemed like the only outlet that I have that is relatively safe.

I'm not sure how many accountants are out there but I've been working at a big4 (PwC/DT/KPMG/EY) for the past 3 years as a senior associate in audit. Prior to here, I've had quite a bit of extensive accounting experience including SEC reporting at a large publicly traded company, smaller and national accounting firms.

Every April-June timeframe, there is a "formal" review process for all applicants. Watching this for the 3rd year in a row, I can't help but notice this is nothing but a minority ethnic cleansing. It seems like the firm tries to place one or two minority in every segment/industry/client and tries push them out of the firm after 2-3 years. You have it the worst if you're a member of the male minority as opposed to being a female minority. Among whites, I see it's about a 50/50 between men and women.

This is disgusting and sick. What gets to me the most is that among some of the white new hires out of college, they ENJOY this. In accounting, big4 seems to be the breeding ground for white racists who enjoy this. Other whites, I spoke about this openly and while they admit they don't enjoy it, they explain it is the way it is.

I live no where near the deep south but this to me is nothing but the modern-day racism that is bred within the large accounting firms. From just talking to people, I notice law firms are very similar. I guess this is why the minorities tend to go toward medical and science industries.

Can anybody of any race have an input? I'm only putting this on here because while I expected some degree of racial tension, I'm so freaking astonished by the degree which the new white hires from colleges are expecting this and enjoy proliferating it. I thought maybe its better with the old boys network but this is pretty ridiculous.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,103 posts, read 4,593,163 times
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Its interesting that you brought this up. I obviously have no facts as this would be something thats difficult to measure in a scientific way, but I can note some observations, as a fellow accountant. I am in North Florida which is still pretty bigoted, if anyone disagrees thats your own opinion and for a different thread. In my undergrad classes the majority of students were white, and mostly female. I am now in grad school where I am about 60% finished. In all of my classes so far there have been 0-1 black students out of a class of ~30. There have been 0-1 asian students. There has been a ratio of about 70% female to 30% male. In my first corporate job the staff of ~40 people had 2 black employees (mid management) and the rest were white. There were 7 men in the office. Our external audit staff (big 4) were primarily men and all white.

In my second corporate accounting job we have a different big 4 firm and they are all white, but all women. However my current staff of about 16 people is primarily black and the hiring manager is black. They are also primarily female.

What I have experienced in my 5 years in accounting is not that the industry is racist, as it doesnt appear that in my region many black people choose accounting as a career (as evident by my undergrad/grad composition) but that it is very sexist. All of my managers have been female and treated me in a less favorable manner than my fellow female coworkers. They also seem to carry the "Im a struggling female professional" weight on their shoulders and it drives me insane.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:02 AM
 
397 posts, read 308,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
Its interesting that you brought this up. I obviously have no facts as this would be something thats difficult to measure in a scientific way, but I can note some observations, as a fellow accountant. I am in North Florida which is still pretty bigoted, if anyone disagrees thats your own opinion and for a different thread. In my undergrad classes the majority of students were white, and mostly female. I am now in grad school where I am about 60% finished. In all of my classes so far there have been 0-1 black students out of a class of ~30. There have been 0-1 asian students. There has been a ratio of about 70% female to 30% male. In my first corporate job the staff of ~40 people had 2 black employees (mid management) and the rest were white. There were 7 men in the office. Our external audit staff (big 4) were primarily men and all white.

In my second corporate accounting job we have a different big 4 firm and they are all white, but all women. However my current staff of about 16 people is primarily black and the hiring manager is black. They are also primarily female.

What I have experienced in my 5 years in accounting is not that the industry is racist, as it doesnt appear that in my region many black people choose accounting as a career (as evident by my undergrad/grad composition) but that it is very sexist. All of my managers have been female and treated me in a less favorable manner than my fellow female coworkers. They also seem to carry the "Im a struggling female professional" weight on their shoulders and it drives me insane.
The struggling white female is a joke. They have so much power in the office I currently work at and whenever that oppression was, it is so far behind at least in the industry that I'm in. I read an article from Journal of Accountancy few years ago and I believe there were more female than male graduating college with an accounting degree.

I definitely agree there were very few black people in my accounting courses in college. I grew up in DC metro area and went to college around here as well. But, I did see plenty of asian and middle eastern racial decent in my accounting courses. At the big4 firm, the ratio that I had in my college accounting courses is nowhere near what I currently see.

I was chatting over google last night to another asian former big4 accountant who is now director in FP&A and he told me if I didn't like it, I need to leave. This is coming from another asian who I think grew up in a different environment than I did.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:47 AM
 
1,624 posts, read 4,491,570 times
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Racism against Asians at big firms? Is that your beef? Your initial post is unclear and lumping all minorities together is unhelpful. Black and Asians have very distinct issues at the top accounting firms.

If your issue is not being promoted to management, I've been in those meetings. There are only a certain amount of manager slots and they are apportioned by productivity, supervisory skills, technical skills, administrative skills, and networking and potential for client development. Also, whether they seem to enjoy working at the firm and want to be there long term. I can't ever remember race being mentioned other than a positive if someone was say a VP of a ethnic CPA committee or something like that or actively mentored other minorities. You need to be solid in all of those areas.

The reason why a lot of newer employees like turnover is because it creates opportunities. There are very few industries where a 26 year old can be a manager. In the government, it can take you 10 years to get a supervisory position that takes 3 years at a Big 4 firm. Your career development is accelerated at a great pace because of the turnover. Also, it isn't like those that leave are left unemployed, as they take a great resume, a strong brand, strong training, and desirable experience and skills to private employers. If you have so much anxiety about the competition, working at top tier employers isn't for you.

Last edited by slim04; 07-23-2015 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:07 AM
 
397 posts, read 308,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
Racism against Asians at big firms? Is that your beef? Your initial post is unclear and lumping all minorities together is unhelpful. Black and Asians have very distinct issues at the top accounting firms.

If your issue is not being promoted to management, I've been in those meetings. There are only a certain amount of manager slots and they are apportioned by productivity, supervisory skills, technical skills, administrative skills, and networking and potential for client development. Also, whether they seem to enjoy working at the firm and want to be there long term. I can't ever remember race being mentioned other than a positive if someone was say a VP of a ethnic CPA committee or something like that or actively mentored other minorities. You need to be solid in all of those areas.

The reason why a lot of newer employees like turnover is because it creates opportunities. There are very few industries where a 26 year old can be a manager. In the government, it can take you 10 years to get a supervisory position that takes 3 years at a Big 4 firm. Your career development is accelerated at a great pace because of the turnover. Also, it isn't like those that leave are left unemployed, as they take a great resume, a strong brand, strong training, and desirable experience and skills to private employers. If you have so much anxiety about the competition, working at top tier employers isn't for you.
Have you worked for a big4? If so, are you blind?

Here are some of the quotes everytime I allude to my observation with my colleagues in the past 3 years:

"this is client service. if the client enjoys riding a bicycle, we need to send someone who enjoys riding a bicycle. if the client's jewish, we send someone who is jewish" - managing director

"what we do is not very hard. this isn't about accounting" - former senior now manager

"i will never work for a korean manager" - a white lady at during my training in atlanta who's in risk assurance practice

I've never seen anybody who is so good at disguising racism in the firm than the big4. My guess is that ibankers and lawyers probably have it worse in this sense.

"public company experience" is a code word for "white people only" in so many situations. I had couple of years of SEC reporting experience and that's what I told them during the interviews. And yet, my partner keeps saying I should focus on "private companies". We ALL know in accounting industry private company accounting is less favorable since a lot of the rules don't apply and the salaries tend to be smaller.

Even looking at the same class of new hires, minorities are typically sent to the private company services clients or just put in private company clients in our group.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:14 AM
 
397 posts, read 308,925 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim04 View Post
Racism against Asians at big firms? Is that your beef? Your initial post is unclear and lumping all minorities together is unhelpful. Black and Asians have very distinct issues at the top accounting firms.

If your issue is not being promoted to management, I've been in those meetings. There are only a certain amount of manager slots and they are apportioned by productivity, supervisory skills, technical skills, administrative skills, and networking and potential for client development. Also, whether they seem to enjoy working at the firm and want to be there long term. I can't ever remember race being mentioned other than a positive if someone was say a VP of a ethnic CPA committee or something like that or actively mentored other minorities. You need to be solid in all of those areas.

The reason why a lot of newer employees like turnover is because it creates opportunities. There are very few industries where a 26 year old can be a manager. In the government, it can take you 10 years to get a supervisory position that takes 3 years at a Big 4 firm. Your career development is accelerated at a great pace because of the turnover. Also, it isn't like those that leave are left unemployed, as they take a great resume, a strong brand, strong training, and desirable experience and skills to private employers. If you have so much anxiety about the competition, working at top tier employers isn't for you.
You're right about one thing. Alot of asians do get hired but never get past probably the manager level. You either have to be female and is attractive (this I don't mind since looks is pervasive to all races) or work on an audit client that is division (i.e. not hq) since the firm DOES seem to have a genuine fear that they'll lose clients when presenting a non-white senior/mgr to a white client.

Black people don't even seem to get into my firm in this office. However, I did see HUGE amount of black people in the philly office when I was there for training. I don't know ratio there of staff vs. managers.

The receptionist floor at my office also houses IT, mailroom, and HR. HR is a mixed bag. IT and Mailroom, ALL minorities. The closest to a white person I've seen on that floor is some lady from Turkey who was a receptionist.

My point is, race is so bucketed into what they're supposed to do. These kids coming out of college, they freaking enjoy it which pisses me off. Someone might be told to murder and its one thing but to enjoy the act is another.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:29 AM
 
397 posts, read 308,925 times
Reputation: 166
Perpetuation of the same old crap, that's why they're all conservatives.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:26 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,980,026 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinfairfax View Post
So, I'm not sure if this is the right place to vent but it seemed like the only outlet that I have that is relatively safe.

I'm not sure how many accountants are out there but I've been working at a big4 (PwC/DT/KPMG/EY) for the past 3 years as a senior associate in audit. Prior to here, I've had quite a bit of extensive accounting experience including SEC reporting at a large publicly traded company, smaller and national accounting firms.

Every April-June timeframe, there is a "formal" review process for all applicants. Watching this for the 3rd year in a row, I can't help but notice this is nothing but a minority ethnic cleansing. It seems like the firm tries to place one or two minority in every segment/industry/client and tries push them out of the firm after 2-3 years. You have it the worst if you're a member of the male minority as opposed to being a female minority. Among whites, I see it's about a 50/50 between men and women.

This is disgusting and sick. What gets to me the most is that among some of the white new hires out of college, they ENJOY this. In accounting, big4 seems to be the breeding ground for white racists who enjoy this. Other whites, I spoke about this openly and while they admit they don't enjoy it, they explain it is the way it is.

I live no where near the deep south but this to me is nothing but the modern-day racism that is bred within the large accounting firms. From just talking to people, I notice law firms are very similar. I guess this is why the minorities tend to go toward medical and science industries.

Can anybody of any race have an input? I'm only putting this on here because while I expected some degree of racial tension, I'm so freaking astonished by the degree which the new white hires from colleges are expecting this and enjoy proliferating it. I thought maybe its better with the old boys network but this is pretty ridiculous.
I'm not an accountant and don't deal with them regularly, but now that you bring it up, I've never met a non-white accountant at any accounting firm regardless of the size. I had a black friend in college who was going into accounting, but his father had his own small firm. Maybe there is a reason his father opened his own firm, but I had never put any thought into it.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:30 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,980,026 times
Reputation: 3398
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Originally Posted by livinfairfax View Post
Perpetuation of the same old crap, that's why they're all conservatives.
I had just posted, but I wanted to reply to this too. All accountants I know are conservative (politically and fiscally), even my black friend and his dad. None I know are outwardly racist, but I suppose I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find out some are.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:46 PM
 
397 posts, read 308,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I had just posted, but I wanted to reply to this too. All accountants I know are conservative (politically and fiscally), even my black friend and his dad. None I know are outwardly racist, but I suppose I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find out some are.
I'm venting today after seeing this for last 3 years so I want to add a footnote to my whining. Not all are evil and racist. But, big4 HIGHLY encourages this type of behavior. Just the look that these guys give each other is disgusting. I grew up with white kids only not even kids of my own race. I'm keenly aware of the code words and behaviors that suggests this.

I have white friends as well. Obviously, I don't bring this up all the time since it is distasteful. Big4 should be banned from being allowed to exist. This is a big scheme.
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