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Old 06-06-2019, 06:25 PM
 
18,882 posts, read 57,467,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetJustice View Post
I've worked in businesses where the customer comes first, as that's the way it should be with businesses. The customer is always right is important to running a business. That being the case, we should tell that to the government.
What a bizarre mix of an ancient fallacious aphorism, a simplistic stereotyping of business, and erroneous interpretation of the purpose of government.

What immediately comes to mind in rebuttal is an insurance company selling homeowner insurance. In such a relationship, the fiduciary responsibility of the company consists of proving the customer wrong whenever a claim is filed. What is sold is a promise. With luck and skill and good lawyers, that promise never has to be filled. LEGALLY, such insurance is written so that anything more than a homeowner being "made whole" is a crime punishable with prison time. However, being recompensed less than a full amount is legal, and fitting a company into a prison cell highly impractical. Last time I checked, insurance companies were doing quite well while regularly proving customers wrong.

Also, last time I checked, the primary purpose of any government was one of staying in power. Ancillary to that are defenses of geographic areas, positive trade relations, support of power players, and control of the general citizenry and rabble. Citizens are no more "customers" of governments than leaves are customers of trees. Ask any North Korean, ask anyone who was drafted to serve in Vietnam or Korea.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:22 PM
 
1,000 posts, read 561,499 times
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Within your written policy if it's clearly visible for the buyer.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:38 AM
 
Location: NJ
26,846 posts, read 32,447,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Also, last time I checked, the primary purpose of any government was one of staying in power. Ancillary to that are defenses of geographic areas, positive trade relations, support of power players, and control of the general citizenry and rabble. Citizens are no more "customers" of governments than leaves are customers of trees. Ask any North Korean, ask anyone who was drafted to serve in Vietnam or Korea.
shouldnt we evaluate government's as if it were a business? people say that the government can do certain things more efficiently/effectively than the private sector. so we "let" them exist because we believe that. i think we should evaluate the government to find out if we are getting "our money's worth" or not.

of course, the government can and will kill you if you try to stop becoming a customer of theirs. so ultimately, you are forced to try to "fix it from within" but really the means to do that has more to do with pretending the government than changing it.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:26 AM
 
18,882 posts, read 57,467,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
shouldnt we evaluate government's as if it were a business? people say that the government can do certain things more efficiently/effectively than the private sector. so we "let" them exist because we believe that. i think we should evaluate the government to find out if we are getting "our money's worth" or not.

of course, the government can and will kill you if you try to stop becoming a customer of theirs. so ultimately, you are forced to try to "fix it from within" but really the means to do that has more to do with pretending the government than changing it.
Easier said than done, and comparing apples and oranges. The commerce clause was used to effectively price fix the price of crops during the depression, to keep a steady supply of grains for food - or risk starvation of the citizens - and keep farmers from going out of business. How does one judge whether the costs involved, and meddling, is getting "money's worth?" Does cost trump mass starvation?

How do you evaluate a black ops defense program without tipping off enemies and committing treason?

How do you define or value "your" money, which consists of notes from the Fed. and not the government?

How do you evaluate trade imbalances, which have both positive and negative effects?

How do you evaluate long term projects, such as the interstate highway system? What time frames do you use? Businesses that are stockholder owned often suffer from the short term gain, long term loss accounting bias.

As government manages the economy, what happens when it effectively destroys an industry to reach a particular goal, or subsidies one critical to national defense?

The idea that average citizens have the capability of evaluating something so complex as government (as a whole) is ludicrous. Yes, certain small segments or initiatives might benefit from review, but at a certain point it becomes passengers on an airplane in flight picking apart the avionics to see if a part works or could be replaced with a paper clip.
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,943,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Easier said than done, and comparing apples and oranges.
Some wise man of recent put it this way: if there are ten defining characteristics of business and ten defining characteristics of government, perhaps five are largely the same... but the other five are wildly different.

Only a very small mind - and I mean that in a literal sense, not as an insult - can think the two systems can be operated equivalently.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:56 PM
 
Location: NJ
26,846 posts, read 32,447,277 times
Reputation: 18921
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Easier said than done, and comparing apples and oranges. The commerce clause was used to effectively price fix the price of crops during the depression, to keep a steady supply of grains for food - or risk starvation of the citizens - and keep farmers from going out of business. How does one judge whether the costs involved, and meddling, is getting "money's worth?" Does cost trump mass starvation?

How do you evaluate a black ops defense program without tipping off enemies and committing treason?

How do you define or value "your" money, which consists of notes from the Fed. and not the government?

How do you evaluate trade imbalances, which have both positive and negative effects?

How do you evaluate long term projects, such as the interstate highway system? What time frames do you use? Businesses that are stockholder owned often suffer from the short term gain, long term loss accounting bias.

As government manages the economy, what happens when it effectively destroys an industry to reach a particular goal, or subsidies one critical to national defense?

The idea that average citizens have the capability of evaluating something so complex as government (as a whole) is ludicrous. Yes, certain small segments or initiatives might benefit from review, but at a certain point it becomes passengers on an airplane in flight picking apart the avionics to see if a part works or could be replaced with a paper clip.
sure, there are a million factors and different opinions on the values of different things so there is not going to be a concrete answer. but it isnt a pointless effort to consider whether you are getting a good value or not from your government.

i find it interesting that one would seem to not even want people to venture to think about this value proposition.

you mention the military a couple of times. we spend about $1 trillion a year on the military. are we getting a good value on that money vs a country that spends much less on their military?
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:31 PM
 
6,175 posts, read 1,817,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
But I would be willing to bet that you are getting plenty of service in return for the taxes you pay.
Thank goodness we don't get all the government we pay for.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:55 PM
 
Location: NJ
26,846 posts, read 32,447,277 times
Reputation: 18921
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
Thank goodness we don't get all the government we pay for.
people in the middle east are getting the government that we pay for.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
1,793 posts, read 1,296,908 times
Reputation: 3452
The customer is always right motto is one of the quickest ways a business can no longer be a business.

Every year, in my businesses (B2B), I make it a point to fire few of those customers who think they're always right.
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