U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Business
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-30-2019, 04:43 PM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,653,614 times
Reputation: 4955

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
It probably wouldn't hurt if you read The E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber - Why Most Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About It.

You need to fill a need, you need to figure out how to know what's going on in your field, what projects are going on, who farms out engineering work to one man firms like yourself. Look at your competitors and see what they're doing. Call them up and see if they need help. Call up your former work contacts and see if they're heard of any place needing help. You might look at government agencies too and see what projects are available to bid on.
Yep, was looking for govt bid work, do the feds have like one central web site to bid for contracts all over the country (kind of like they have for USA jobs)? I will ask my family what the one for the state is.

How do private companies go out for bid on work? I am actually meeting a former work contact today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-30-2019, 04:49 PM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,653,614 times
Reputation: 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
The suspicion is that the 'drum up business' stuff is the tip of the iceburg...
it's just the skill your currently/immediately aware of not knowing.

Find an UN-comparable job instead. Something completely different.
Something that will expand/broaden your skill set to include Bus Mgmt skills generally...
but more critically the soft skills of personal contact work (like sales & marketing).
And get PAID to learn it.
When I said comparable I meant non-mcjob. I can substitute teach indefinitely so there is absolutely no reason for me to take anything less than $20/hr. That said I have applied for vendor rep jobs and sales positions (real sales of engineering equipment I am familiar with and have specified in my old roll).

I have really been trying to get on with Swagelok to sell valves and fittings, I am friends with one of the higher-ups there for almost a decade but he does not do hiring. I should reach out to him again. But it's not exactly a retire in the next 3 years kind of job so they would have to be cool with me continuing to substitute teach 3 days a month as a hedge against a lay off otherwise I cant take it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 05:00 AM
 
6,959 posts, read 3,145,095 times
Reputation: 21092
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
I am doing it now, I am going to trade shows and trying to turn companies I apply to jobs for into potential leads get business cards etc. Most of my time is going to be spent getting my second professional license because I do have a few leads for jobs but they need me to have that second license for federal and state work.

Never the less it's still painful and slow going but what else am I going to do. I have applied to engineer sales jobs (essentially equipment sales jobs/vendor reps) they had me take personality tests and I was not offered the job even though I had the same alma mater as the owner (and its a small top tier school for the major). I think being a vendor rep would be cool but have not been able to pull it off yet.

I'd definitely take a Dale Carnegie course, then. While it's really a matter of practice more than anything, that would give you the essentials.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 06:19 AM
 
5,139 posts, read 3,423,322 times
Reputation: 10441
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Yep, was looking for govt bid work, do the feds have like one central web site to bid for contracts all over the country (kind of like they have for USA jobs)? I will ask my family what the one for the state is.

How do private companies go out for bid on work? I am actually meeting a former work contact today.
Private companies may just use companies they already know and trust. Or, they may have you fill out forms to be on their list of approved vendors, like many schools and small government agencies do.

My brother does a lot of federal government contracting. It was also a "who you know" type start, finding out about certain projects through one of his hobbies, knowing the people that secured the government funding for some small projects, then learning how the system worked to go for the bigger jobs, being able to put together bids that were better and lower priced than the competition.

I don't think we can give you a direct road map. Each business is different and has to find their own way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 09:35 AM
 
Location: NJ
26,866 posts, read 32,467,198 times
Reputation: 18960
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Never the less it's still painful and slow going but what else am I going to do. I have applied to engineer sales jobs (essentially equipment sales jobs/vendor reps) they had me take personality tests and I was not offered the job even though I had the same alma mater as the owner (and its a small top tier school for the major). I think being a vendor rep would be cool but have not been able to pull it off yet.
its going to be very difficult for you to drum up business if you cant pass a personality test. you would really need to have very superior skills to have any hope of succeeding if you arent good with people. im sorry but i think you would be better off trying to be a great employee and then maybe seeing if you can do some stuff on your own while working for someone else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 01:22 PM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,653,614 times
Reputation: 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
its going to be very difficult for you to drum up business if you cant pass a personality test. you would really need to have very superior skills to have any hope of succeeding if you arent good with people. im sorry but i think you would be better off trying to be a great employee and then maybe seeing if you can do some stuff on your own while working for someone else.
That would be nice but its been a year and a half and I have not been able to get a new job, that is why I am doing what I am doing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,947,143 times
Reputation: 13391
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
That would be nice but its been a year and a half and I have not been able to get a new job, that is why I am doing what I am doing.
So you can't get anyone to hire you, but you expect to make a go of being a consultant/contractor?

I empathize entirely, from a similar perspective, but... good luck with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 02:40 PM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,653,614 times
Reputation: 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So you can't get anyone to hire you, but you expect to make a go of being a consultant/contractor?

I empathize entirely, from a similar perspective, but... good luck with that.
I don't see another option. I also substitute teach and my wife seems ok with that. So if I get my electrical PE and things don't pan out then I will think of something else I can do, maybe learn German (Switzerland) or Norwegian so that we can leave if it ever comes down to it.

But my wife and family have the means to keep us where we are and I can just keep trying different things (otherwise I would have moved in with parents and been learning German or Norwegian already and likely already been gone). I prefer cuddly capitalism vs homelessness.

I can see if I can get a masters online from Germany or Norway and just keep building skills. I put in a FOIA request to get a winning resume of a federal job I wanted so I am going to build my federal resume up and go that route as well, if I can get a federal job then im done, short of doing something really dumb or being extraordinarily incompetent I will have a job for life.

What else would you suggest?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 3,947,143 times
Reputation: 13391
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
What else would you suggest?
You're betting all your chips that a newly-acquired degree or certification will make you desirable as a contractor, which is probably... not true. Anyone who's going to hire an engineering consultant is going to go with the grizzled, hard-learned old expert (like my former FIL), not someone whose education and experience is in the early years.

I completely sympathize with how difficult it can be to get a job - I'm closing in on two years now, almost entirely due to being twice the age of most candidates.

But you're better off getting a job that's 'beneath you' than putting in years of education trying to pass for a much more experienced authority, which is how I read your plans. If no one would hire you outright for a senior engineering position, they won't call you to consult (because their own team is too inexperienced), either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2019, 03:33 PM
 
6,959 posts, read 3,145,095 times
Reputation: 21092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You're betting all your chips that a newly-acquired degree or certification will make you desirable as a contractor, which is probably... not true. Anyone who's going to hire an engineering consultant is going to go with the grizzled, hard-learned old expert (like my former FIL), not someone whose education and experience is in the early years.

I completely sympathize with how difficult it can be to get a job - I'm closing in on two years now, almost entirely due to being twice the age of most candidates.

But you're better off getting a job that's 'beneath you' than putting in years of education trying to pass for a much more experienced authority, which is how I read your plans. If no one would hire you outright for a senior engineering position, they won't call you to consult (because their own team is too inexperienced), either.

I disagree with this advice. It is far more likely that someone will hire the OP on a project basis than hire full-time. Staffing costs being what they are, you can pretty much add a boatload of expenses on top of each new hire from health insurance to SSI kick-in to other benefits. Hiring someone to take on a project for a limited period serves two purposes: 1) You enjoy flexibility in staffing and 2) you get to try a potential candidate on for size without much risk.

The other thing? OP's geographic area might be tapped out in terms of his specialty. If so, he's better off moving somewhere where engineers are in short supply.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics > Business
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top