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Old 10-20-2019, 06:10 PM
 
9,239 posts, read 7,863,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson View Post
AUV driven by USP, which Subway does not have. And Subway does not use Boars Head.
What is AUV and USP?
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:02 AM
 
Location: VA, IL, FL, SD, TN, NC, SC
1,367 posts, read 395,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
What is AUV and USP?
AUV - average unit volume
USP - unique selling proposition

Others:

UFOC - Uniform Franchising Offer Curricular (obsolete, replaced by FDD)
FDD - Franchise Disclosure Document
FA - Franchise Agreement
Zee- Franchisee
Zor - Franchisor
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:36 AM
 
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I'll bring up another one, just because I'm curious if anyone has any insights.



In my area.. Greenville, SC.. We had a Texas based franchise come into town. Chicken joint.. Golden Chick


They opened their first store.. Did decently well. Then they started opening more. Opened another in Greenville only a mile or so from the first unit, right across from a college, but the college is basically the only thing there, otherwise the area is fairly depressed (Church's is located in the same area and does fairly well)

They opened units in Greenwood, Easley and Spartanburg.

The only one that made it a year is the original unit. The rest closed VERY quickly. they also built all these buildings. The original unit lasted about 3 years and closed.

Now, their food was wonderful. Let me tell you those Yeast Rolls.. We'd go there sometimes and just get a dozen of those. I never tried their Bone-in chicken, but the tenders were very good.

my guess as to the achilles heel.. Several things. Some units were in bad locations.. The Spartanburg and second Greenville locations were not where they could have done well. But that doesn't explain the others.

the food was good, so I don't see that being a problem. It was SLIGHTLY expensive, but actually less so than Zaxby's, another similar chain.

My guess... This may be a situation similar to what we discussed before with Quizno's and the like. Maybe they get a franchisee that.. Probably wasn't vetted enough and didn't have enough knowledge to do it.


But i wonder if the biggest problem was selling bone-in chicken. That's a bad business model. Chicken has gotten incredibly expensive. I've found old newspaper ads.. In fact, let me pull one up now..



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/37612816/

1980.. 2 pieces of chicken, biscuit and potatoes and gravy for $1.39


That's nearly $5 today.


I wish I could find the price of an 8pc bucket with 2 sides. That was about $5 in 1980 and is $20 today. KFC at least has a plan for waste on chicken.. They reuse it in the pot-pies. But in that business, you either toss a fair amount of product, or don't have it ready and people have to wait 20 minutes, which they don't want to do..
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:13 AM
 
Location: VA, IL, FL, SD, TN, NC, SC
1,367 posts, read 395,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
I'll bring up another one, just because I'm curious if anyone has any insights...

They opened their first store.. Did decently well. Then they started opening more. Opened another in Greenville only a mile or so from the first unit, right across from a college, but the college is basically the only thing there, otherwise the area is fairly depressed (Church's is located in the same area and does fairly well)

They opened units in Greenwood, Easley and Spartanburg.

The only one that made it a year is the original unit. The rest closed VERY quickly. they also built all these buildings. The original unit lasted about 3 years and closed.
I have not vetted the concept so I do not "know" anything. Hazarding a guess based on your description it may not be the concept at all but a rather simple point. They may have moved to an area developer concept or all the franchises were being operated by the same zee. It could be a simple case of the zee running into cashflow problems and taking down many stores at about the same time. That happened to Applebees back in the great recession. The had a very large MUF in the midwest who had cashflow problems and went under and took out a giant chunk of Northern Illinois. In a year they all were gone and never did reopen. Most of those units are now roll your own bar and family dining concepts. That might explain it.

Quote:

But i wonder if the biggest problem was selling bone-in chicken. That's a bad business model. Chicken has gotten incredibly expensive. I've found old newspaper ads.. In fact, let me pull one up now..



https://www.newspapers.com/clip/37612816/

1980.. 2 pieces of chicken, biscuit and potatoes and gravy for $1.39


That's nearly $5 today.


I wish I could find the price of an 8pc bucket with 2 sides. That was about $5 in 1980 and is $20 today. KFC at least has a plan for waste on chicken.. They reuse it in the pot-pies. But in that business, you either toss a fair amount of product, or don't have it ready and people have to wait 20 minutes, which they don't want to do..
I know the biz fairly well. I had a successful fried chicken concept many, many years back and since then helped many a person start one up.

You are correct about the 20 minutes thing, but that is because they took chicken and made it into a fastfood concept. A different type of concept would train your customers to understand it and set expectations.

I do not think bone-in-chicken is a bad concept at all, the problem is with these concepts as franchises. Get the FDD and look at the build out costs. Most of it is "me too" attempts at branding and does nothing to drive profits. These are weak franchises with no USP. I have been paid several times to test the branding, in general the market is brand indifferent. The other thing is, A locations are not necessarily needed for Ice Cream, pizza, chicken, or ribs. The zors however often insist on an A location when the zee is deriving no bottom line increment for it. Oten it is a function of the way the lease is written with a share on gross vs. bottom line. So your zor bogos or coupons you to death and you end up giving the landlord and zor a taste out of your retained earnings.

Last edited by GhostOfAndrewJackson; 10-22-2019 at 06:52 AM..
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:58 PM
 
11,280 posts, read 8,708,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson View Post
I have not vetted the concept so I do not "know" anything. Hazarding a guess based on your description it may not be the concept at all but a rather simple point. They may have moved to an area developer concept or all the franchises were being operated by the same zee. It could be a simple case of the zee running into cashflow problems and taking down many stores at about the same time. That happened to Applebees back in the great recession. The had a very large MUF in the midwest who had cashflow problems and went under and took out a giant chunk of Northern Illinois. In a year they all were gone and never did reopen. Most of those units are now roll your own bar and family dining concepts. That might explain it.



I know the biz fairly well. I had a successful fried chicken concept many, many years back and since then helped many a person start one up.

You are correct about the 20 minutes thing, but that is because they took chicken and made it into a fastfood concept. A different type of concept would train your customers to understand it and set expectations.

I do not think bone-in-chicken is a bad concept at all, the problem is with these concepts as franchises. Get the FDD and look at the build out costs. Most of it is "me too" attempts at branding and does nothing to drive profits. These are weak franchises with no USP. I have been paid several times to test the branding, in general the market is brand indifferent. The other thing is, A locations are not necessarily needed for Ice Cream, pizza, chicken, or ribs. The zors however often insist on an A location when the zee is deriving no bottom line increment for it. Oten it is a function of the way the lease is written with a share on gross vs. bottom line. So your zor bogos or coupons you to death and you end up giving the landlord and zor a taste out of your retained earnings.

All valid, possible reasons. I don't know the answer myself.. Just curious about it. We all know the stats of 'failing in the first 2 years' and all that. and that too many franchisees think these things are just cash cows that run themselves when the exact opposite is generally the truth.

If you look at their website.. They've hovered around the 180 unit mark since I started following them about 4 years ago. Golden Chick Restaurants – Chicken Tenders – Fried Chicken


You can also see that they are a very Texas concept. The majority of their locations are in that area. But, the newly opened and coming soon remain about the same. About 20 locations a year.. And they close about the same to remain at that 180 level.
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo101 View Post
Boars Head,are you kidding,thats expensive meat .
I once ate a subway sandwich at the airport,by the time I get home,I am hungry again.
Once I was at a food court waiting for my apointment and have some time to kill,so I ordered a fish sandwich from Mcdonald,it has always been my favorite since day 1.
Now the fish tastes like cardboard paper,I looked around and try to figure how can any Mcmeals be filling ,well most are eating burger with fries and milk shake and maybe apple turnover as well,these are all carbo food,no wonder there are more diabetics these days.
stay home,and cook your own meal
But all the cheap hole in the wall Bodegas/cornershops delis sell Boars Head.

Its odd because I also go into gourmet delis/specialty ethnic supermarkets that are suppose to be higher class, and they too stock Boars Head. Same brand as the cheap dirty bodegas.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
11,041 posts, read 9,362,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Cost of actual delivered product is a small part of total cost, as you should well know. And in this case, I wouldn't be surprised if franchise/promotion participation costs exceeded that of the sandwich.
You understand what few do. Many fail to understand overhead. The overhead for 1200 sq ft shop in Manhattan as in NYC is going to be a lot higher than say a shop in Manhattan KS and as they are both selling a 6ft for $5 who is making the most? I realize volume plays a large role but by how much?
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:32 PM
 
561 posts, read 214,744 times
Reputation: 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson View Post
7-11 deserved the lawsuits. The trouble with so many zors is they get greedy and forget about win-win. In business all partners should eat at the table and no one should go hungry.

Frankly, why anyone would become a convenience store zee anymore is beyond me. Technology and the advance in rack jobbers has really made these concepts far more doable as a do it yourself operation. There are so many suppliers out there that the USP is gone (IMO). I am not sure what a zee is really buying that past the value proposition test.
I just got back to the Tampa Fl. area to start my annual winter migration. I was blow away to see many brand new 7-11 stores that have just opened, or are about to. As a northeasterner, I though that all 7-11s were old crap properties where over-worked Asians spent every waking hour, toiling as franchisees?
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Mogadishu, MN
7,444 posts, read 1,991,746 times
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The last time I went in to a Subway and got a sub was close to a year ago...and I was shocked how puny their subs had become from when I was fresh out of high school (about 20 years ago).


I would always get the cold cut - and I used to get it a lot back out of high school when this girl I knew worked there.


It used to be STACKED with like two or three times as much meat. Then, last year when I went there, I was appalled at how little meat was on their sandwiches.


And that was more or less the end of Subway for me. I won't support them anymore, unless I am almost forced to eat there. That's on them. I'm sure i'm not the only one.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:28 PM
 
Location: VA, IL, FL, SD, TN, NC, SC
1,367 posts, read 395,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
The last time I went in to a Subway and got a sub was close to a year ago...and I was shocked how puny their subs had become from when I was fresh out of high school (about 20 years ago).


I would always get the cold cut - and I used to get it a lot back out of high school when this girl I knew worked there.


It used to be STACKED with like two or three times as much meat. Then, last year when I went there, I was appalled at how little meat was on their sandwiches.


And that was more or less the end of Subway for me. I won't support them anymore, unless I am almost forced to eat there. That's on them. I'm sure i'm not the only one.
For taste try Charleys. Health food it is not, but they make a decent grilled subs. I like the buffalo chicken. It is addicting. Unlike most sub concepts, Charleys actually demonstrates a brand preference with consumers.
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