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Old 12-04-2008, 01:48 AM
Location: Michigan
29,391 posts, read 55,692,342 times
Reputation: 22046


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A national poll suggests that six in 10 Americans oppose using taxpayer money to help the ailing major U.S. auto companies.

Sixty-one percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey out Wednesday are dead set against the federal government providing billions of dollars in assistance for the automakers, with 36 percent favoring such a bailout.

Six in 10 oppose auto bailout, poll shows - CNN.com
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Old 12-04-2008, 05:43 PM
Location: Houston, Texas
10,447 posts, read 49,724,759 times
Reputation: 10618
I just heard on the news from one of the big 3 clowns that they know they made a mistake but they have learned from their mistakes.

Gee...... When I applied for credit with my bank I been with for 10 years and the creditor questioned me about one late payment, I told the loan officer that I made a mistake but learned from it. The loan officer laughed his azz off and fell off his chair laughing while motioning to the security officer to throw me out on my azz and not to ever waste his time ever again.

I guess it works different for big business and big govt. There probably are some rules written down saying they are allowed to make unlimited mistakes and collect nice bonuses for it. If I handled my money like they handle theirs I would have been bankrupt and homeless since ..........................
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:02 PM
48,502 posts, read 97,029,878 times
Reputation: 18305
The last polls I saw 65% were against the bailout;20 something per cent for it and the rest don't know.But this is politics as we saw with the last bailout and the democartic leadership wants this passed. They do whatever has to be done just like the two votes with the last bailout. Its all about political interest groups that have bought and paid for the politicians votes.

Last edited by texdav; 12-05-2008 at 06:41 PM..
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:07 PM
Location: NJ
2,111 posts, read 7,960,758 times
Reputation: 1024
Someone should run a poll on here.
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Old 12-08-2008, 12:09 PM
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,854 posts, read 51,338,327 times
Reputation: 58749
I always assume I don't know enough about finances to understand why the government chooses to do these things.

As I said on another post though, the least these manufacturers could do is offer every American with a 2008 tax return some sort of a discount or a purchase with no money down. They will sell more vehicles and we at least will get SOMETHING for the big bail out that ultimately we'll pay for anyway.

Last edited by GloryB; 12-08-2008 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:54 AM
2,776 posts, read 3,998,162 times
Reputation: 3049
I concur with a previous poster - I typically give the Government the benefit of the doubt. In this instance, however, I wonder if they have really thought everything out. Instead of a massive Federal Govt automotive industry loan, why not force the Financial Companies already bailed out to give the loans to the automotive industry instead? The Finance companies started the mess... why not force their hand in fixing it with the hundreds of billions already given to them?

That said, news last evening indicated the automotive loan package is moving forward. Indeed US Taxpayers are going to finance the survival of Ford, GM, and Chrysler this year. I guess we'll see what happens and have to hope for the best.

Maybe all this economic news and recessionary-fallout will be the kick in the pants needed to encourage some much needed and serious innovation (autmotive and the other industries).
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:08 AM
12,867 posts, read 14,944,936 times
Reputation: 4459
GM is already essentially bankrupt. they have 200,000 workers and are supporting health care and pensions for over 1 million and they currently have more liabilities than assets.
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:42 AM
2,776 posts, read 3,998,162 times
Reputation: 3049
Default the auto bailout is a bad idea

It's hard for me to feel bad for companies which have 1) continually offered employees something obviously and completely unsustainable in any competitive business environment and 2) continued to create vehicles using dated technology rather than conduct real R&D to figure how to use alternative energy sources and environmentally friendly materials. ...and... 3) lastly, for decades they have all had executives which amassed absolute fortunes for a few years "work" (I put work in quotes because let us be honest with ourselves... none of these folks have done the hard labor regularly required of the people lower on the totem pole).

I know these companies employ a lot of people, but that is no excuse to keep them afloat with US taxpayer dollars. These companies have a failed business model, that's it. If upon reorganizing they have to shed jobs, then let the chips fall where they may. The employees will have to find something else to do, that's it. It's perhaps cold, but you know what... blame the executives who made the decisions leading everyone to this point... throw them all in jail and take their wealth to make everyone feel better (including ones from 5-10 years ago who you know saw this coming). For the suppliers and related industries, I say the same thing... change your model, the product you produce, or service you sell so that you can survive or go away. This is the way business is conducted people. It's about making money through the exchange of goods and services. Any money you give to these companies is futile and no you won't ever see it again. If these companies were truly worthy of getting more money (and earning it back), then the Financial Institutions would be lining up ready to give them loans. I just hear crickets... no one is waiting in line to do that.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:57 PM
1,960 posts, read 4,673,187 times
Reputation: 5416
The only problem with your ^^^ argument is that you base your assertion on an expectation of parity across the classes, assuming you even acknowledge class warfare in America. The reality is that there is no parity upon which such capitalistic darwinisim would be equitable. All you're effectively advocating is the increase of wealth redistribution to the banking class (most of whom are foreigners mind you) under the guise of a globalized competition mantra they taught you in 6th grade (or college freshman year econ, both have the same level of content really). You're advocating the continuation of the destruction of the American middle class (in essence the definition of America like it or not) for a plutocratic wet dream of ruling minorities with a nation of debtor slaves, just so you can sleep better at night and tell yourself that as crappy as your own purchasing power is considering you lost the farm financing that crappy college degree, at least everybody is down at the new low bar with you.

The rest of the argumentative push for increasing efficiencies (if our currency wasn't inflationary in nature we wouldn't need ever increasing productivity from a work force, you could finally accept 4 day weekday and not have to sell your first-born for food or retirement) and businesses that "make money to survive" is secondary chaff. If you disregard the fallacy of supply side economics, then watching a company become solvent on the shoulders of a dispossessed working class with eroded purchasing power (i.e southern non-union auto plants and the cronie state governments that support them) is of no consequence at all. You still end up subsidizing the work force and the only difference to the individual is that the indignity of getting the hand out gets halved by their insolvent "globalized", "right-sized" underemployment. Other than that, it's business as usual for the worker, more work less pay. Just because Taco Bell makes money doesn't mean that a Taco Bell economy is good for Americans, as our reality clearly shows. So no, economic darwinism doesn't work when the currency is monopoly money and all the chips are held by the banks. You dispossess the bank from their ability to create monetary policy, then you can have companies compete all you want. But under our monetary system, forget it, you need wage protectionism and cheerleading against it under the fallacy of inefficiency is nailing the coffin to the American middle class. If defending that notion is socialism, then yeah I'm the first socialist who serves in the military, and Jefferson is my Stalin....
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:47 PM
Location: Oregon
1,181 posts, read 3,813,345 times
Reputation: 609
As a worker who has been in manufacturing for 20 years or so, I am extremely opposed to bailing these guys out. PCB manufacturing has went from 1000's of shops to maybe 100 in last 10 years, as they move them all over to China. Other manufacturing has been hit hard, and have had to lay off people. I remember in the late 80's our entire company, management included, took a 10% across the board pay cut to prevent lay offs. Have they done that? While I don't want anyone to lose their job, the reality is if they are making $30 an hour in manufacturing, they are paid more than any other manufacturing industry I know of (that isn't union I suppose). Why the heck should taxpayers only bail them out, but let the other industries lay off people, and shut down plants? If it looked at all like they were willing to compromise I'd maybe feel sorry for them, but it sure doesn't look that way. Those unions refusal to even negotiate is hurting the workers they are supposed to represent. To me it looks like the unions are calling in some favors from those they have financed in the past, and we get to pay for it.
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