Entreprenuerial aspriations (incorporate, lease, borrow, small business)
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The question I'm still asking: Being 26 years old, little or no credit history, and zero capital, is it even possible for me to start a business? Do I even have a chance?
Suppose I get an idea I really want to go after, and I'm able to put together a solid proposal to be successful and profitable. Would any bank or firm ever give me a chance anyways?
Chances are less than slim to start a business with nothing for operating capital, equipment, materials, advertising/marketing, or the ability to pay yourself something to live on until the business starts to cash flow (if at all) .... Most businesses take a few years before they are profitable and sustaining.
I wouldn't advise anybody to go into a new business if they don't have a viable means of supporting themselves for a couple of years from the day they open their doors and realistic expectations of putting in a lot of hours.
Very few ventures can begin with nothing more than an intellectual or artistic talent or property and make money from start-up. Folks with assets to back such a venture will want a significant piece of ownership which will minimize your income potential if you have nothing more to contribute than the original business idea or property ... especially if what you propose can be replicated by others and if you are not protected by a patent. Having a great business idea and money-making plan is nowhere near the basis of a business as actually having gone out and made sales and cash flow from implementing it.
IMO, it pays to stick to what you know when venturing into the world of self-employment. For example, you'd mentioned a "restaurant" as an interest ... this is one of the most capital and labor intensive risky businesses I can think of, and if you don't have operating capital, you are sunk before you ever start ... which I doubt you could to begin with. No better example exists of a biz where you need a location, inventory, materials, equipment, labor ... and it all takes money up front just to open the doors. Even the most experienced and successful folks in this business can't guarantee success with a new restaurant operation ... and they can (and do) fail just as spectacularly as not. Look at the turnover in this business at the top ... you see executive chefs moving on all the time, owners/partners changing, etc. And you'll see a very high percentage of failures of new start-ups. If you don't have a solid foundation in this business, you're more likely to be a failed business right from the outset ... and that includes even buying an existing operation. It's harder work than it appears on the face of the front side of the house.
No bank or conventional lending source is going to loan money on your good intentions or ideas. They need to be secured by something tangible which they can convert to cash should your loan default, and most want to see that you have enough of your own money invested that it wouldn't be easy for you to "walk away" without personal financial pain. You don't sound like you have any such assets, or a line of unsecured credit to work from.
Sorry to sound so negative about going into business ... but having started a number of businesses from scratch in my knowledge areas, I've been there and know the amount of investment/working capital it takes to start a business with any real chance of success. And that track record includes having an established clientele that followed me from a prior employer to my own place of business so that I had an immediate cash flow for my work product. It still took a lot of money to open the doors (and keep them open) and a year before I could get a minimal living income out of the place. Some of my ventures proved to be pretty profitable, some were marginal ... and I'm an experienced, seasoned, and capable owner/investor with connections to unsecured capital as well as conventional money for my business ventures.
I'd suggest that you work in the field that you trained for and seek out real opportunities when you are financially able to pursue them. That means having real assets to put at risk when the time and opportunity presents.
Chances are less than slim to start a business with nothing for operating capital, equipment, materials, advertising/marketing, or the ability to pay yourself something to live on until the business starts to cash flow (if at all) .... Most businesses take a few years before they are profitable and sustaining.
I wouldn't advise anybody to go into a new business if they don't have a viable means of supporting themselves for a couple of years from the day they open their doors and realistic expectations of putting in a lot of hours.
Very few ventures can begin with nothing more than an intellectual or artistic talent or property and make money from start-up. Folks with assets to back such a venture will want a significant piece of ownership which will minimize your income potential if you have nothing more to contribute than the original business idea or property ... especially if what you propose can be replicated by others and if you are not protected by a patent. Having a great business idea and money-making plan is nowhere near the basis of a business as actually having gone out and made sales and cash flow from implementing it.
IMO, it pays to stick to what you know when venturing into the world of self-employment. For example, you'd mentioned a "restaurant" as an interest ... this is one of the most capital and labor intensive risky businesses I can think of, and if you don't have operating capital, you are sunk before you ever start ... which I doubt you could to begin with. No better example exists of a biz where you need a location, inventory, materials, equipment, labor ... and it all takes money up front just to open the doors. Even the most experienced and successful folks in this business can't guarantee success with a new restaurant operation ... and they can (and do) fail just as spectacularly as not. Look at the turnover in this business at the top ... you see executive chefs moving on all the time, owners/partners changing, etc. And you'll see a very high percentage of failures of new start-ups. If you don't have a solid foundation in this business, you're more likely to be a failed business right from the outset ... and that includes even buying an existing operation. It's harder work than it appears on the face of the front side of the house.
No bank or conventional lending source is going to loan money on your good intentions or ideas. They need to be secured by something tangible which they can convert to cash should your loan default, and most want to see that you have enough of your own money invested that it wouldn't be easy for you to "walk away" without personal financial pain. You don't sound like you have any such assets, or a line of unsecured credit to work from.
Sorry to sound so negative about going into business ... but having started a number of businesses from scratch in my knowledge areas, I've been there and know the amount of investment/working capital it takes to start a business with any real chance of success. And that track record includes having an established clientele that followed me from a prior employer to my own place of business so that I had an immediate cash flow for my work product. It still took a lot of money to open the doors (and keep them open) and a year before I could get a minimal living income out of the place. Some of my ventures proved to be pretty profitable, some were marginal ... and I'm an experienced, seasoned, and capable owner/investor with connections to unsecured capital as well as conventional money for my business ventures.
I'd suggest that you work in the field that you trained for and seek out real opportunities when you are financially able to pursue them. That means having real assets to put at risk when the time and opportunity presents.
Thank you for the insight.
The bold is currently what I've been doing, and what I plan on doing. However, I'm currently in IT/Telecomm sales and I know this is not an industry I would start a business in. Yet, it's what my college degree was focused on and what I have had my almost 4 years working experience in. With the job market the way it is, I'm finding it incredibly difficult to enter into new job areas where I don't have 3-5 years direct work experience in. Industries I'd be more interested in would be music production/talent scouting, sports marketing, gaming sofware development/publishing, tourism marketing, or even marketing consulting. But those jobs just aren't available to people like me at this point in time. The only positions that are even giving me a chance are "other sales jobs".
I like sales, I'm good at it, but it's not what I want to do the rest of my life, and unfortunately I feel my only way out of this rat race is to start working for myself. I will never be compensated fairly for the hard work and effort I put into my job if I'm working for a company. I do put in the hours, I do take the extra effort to learn and become better, I do the research it takes to be knowledgeable. I hate to see it go to waste much longer.
I do plan on working more and getting more experience. I don't plan on starting a business any sooner than 3-5 years from now. I plan on doing more research and learning as much as I can. Thank you for answering my question, as I figured I would have to establish some capital before I can even do anything.
It's almost impossible keeping up with all of your conflated statements, cdub ...
You came onto the thread asking if a bank would loan money on the basis of you having no equity, no credit, but a great plan and money making business idea ... and now you assert that you "would have to establish some capital before I can even do anything". Total shift in the nature and foundation of your question and business premise.
Now you've also come forward with a dream to do almost anything ... from a restaurant to promotional entrepreneur to marketing to software development to the hospitality business or consulting to others in those fields when you don't have a background or training. Yeah, right ... as a business owner, I'd sure be the first to want to hire a consultant who apparently hasn't any expertise in my business. Or if I was an aspiring talent in the music business, I'd want to hire somebody who has no experience, no established connections, no nothing to rep me ....
Especially in light of your observations about not wanting to be in sales. Every one of the business or consulting ideas you've got is fundamentally a SALES business.
Unless you can reconcile something you claim to be good at but don't want to do, you've screwed yourself before you've even started out in any of these business ventures.
Your paradigm of business ventures doesn't even come close to the effort, dedication, and investment needed to go into business for yourself and make a living at it. IMO, you're not ready to go into any business ... even if somebody threw money at you without any accountability for performance. Don't quit your day job ....
I know people making 7 figure salaries in the game software business ... and they can't function beyond their talent of software creation and games. Any one of their designs could be a big seller, but they're not the people to sell it and market it ... others who have the balance of the business model and capital are the ones to make it a viable business. Similarly, with family and friends working for other IT outfits ... msoft, H-P, techtronix ... they couldn't sell their creations except to an ongoing business that is able to capitalize upon their work product. That's why they are employees and not business owners.
It's almost impossible keeping up with all of your conflated statements, cdub ...
You came onto the thread asking if a bank would loan money on the basis of you having no equity, no credit, but a great plan and money making business idea ... and now you assert that you "would have to establish some capital before I can even do anything". Total shift in the nature and foundation of your question and business premise.
Now you've also come forward with a dream to do almost anything ... from a restaurant to promotional entrepreneur to marketing to software development to the hospitality business or consulting to others in those fields when you don't have a background or training. Yeah, right ... as a business owner, I'd sure be the first to want to hire a consultant who apparently hasn't any expertise in my business. Or if I was an aspiring talent in the music business, I'd want to hire somebody who has no experience, no established connections, no nothing to rep me ....
Especially in light of your observations about not wanting to be in sales. Every one of the business or consulting ideas you've got is fundamentally a SALES business.
Unless you can reconcile something you claim to be good at but don't want to do, you've screwed yourself before you've even started out in any of these business ventures.
Your paradigm of business ventures doesn't even come close to the effort, dedication, and investment needed to go into business for yourself and make a living at it. IMO, you're not ready to go into any business ... even if somebody threw money at you without any accountability for performance. Don't quit your day job ....
I know people making 7 figure salaries in the game software business ... and they can't function beyond their talent of software creation and games. Any one of their designs could be a big seller, but they're not the people to sell it and market it ... others who have the balance of the business model and capital are the ones to make it a viable business. Similarly, with family and friends working for other IT outfits ... msoft, H-P, techtronix ... they couldn't sell their creations except to an ongoing business that is able to capitalize upon their work product. That's why they are employees and not business owners.
To be honest I feel like you're just trying to shoot me down at this point. I came asking for advice. I don't know anything, I'm not naive to think I have it all figured out. I have a lot of ideas, a lot of passions, and I'm looking for the PATH I need to take to gain the experience and position myself so that 5-10 years down the road I can be in position to start a business venture. I realize why these companies aren't interested in someone like myself who lacks experience, especially in consulting, but these people who are in fact working in these industries had to start somewhere. I'm simply just looking to get my foot in the door, gain lowest level entry possible to start earning experience. Unfortunately, I can't afford to intern without pay.
I guess I'm confused on your message. Are you telling me that because I chose to take a sales job out of college instead of holding out in a down economy for a job I was more passionate about that I've shot myself in the foot and I'm stuck jumping from business to business and trying to make it in sales?
To be honest I feel like you're just trying to shoot me down at this point. I came asking for advice. I don't know anything, I'm not naive to think I have it all figured out. I have a lot of ideas, a lot of passions, and I'm looking for the PATH I need to take to gain the experience and position myself so that 5-10 years down the road I can be in position to start a business venture. I realize why these companies aren't interested in someone like myself who lacks experience, especially in consulting, but these people who are in fact working in these industries had to start somewhere. I'm simply just looking to get my foot in the door, gain lowest level entry possible to start earning experience. Unfortunately, I can't afford to intern without pay.
I guess I'm confused on your message. Are you telling me that because I chose to take a sales job out of college instead of holding out in a down economy for a job I was more passionate about that I've shot myself in the foot and I'm stuck jumping from business to business and trying to make it in sales?
What I'm trying to tell you is that you don't have the perspective or ability to be in business at this time. That's any business.
If you need to make money to survive and are good at Sales, then this is a career path that can reward you far better than trying to do things that you don't know about.
It doesn't appear that you have any background, experience, or training in virtually any of the businesses that you propose to pursue, nor do you have any demonstrated business operations experience or management.
I think you'd do better to ask yourself what is your motivation to be in business? Do you think that if you were simply given a chance that you'd do better than folks who are in whatever business you're dreaming about? What do you think you'll accomplish in that business? Is it sales of a product or service which you have yet to create?
Put this in perspective: you can have the absolutely best item of it's type in the world for sale ... but if you can't bring it to the market or sell it, then you don't have a business. There's lots of inventors and inventions which have never made it to market, have never been anything but big sinkholes for venture capital. Success in business is the result of a lot of hard work, dedication, and capital.
If it was as easy as selling ice cubes to folks without refrigeration ... then you'd have a lot of competitors seeking the same easy money. It's not that easy.
So, until you have something more than an "I want to be in business" dream to do stuff which you know nothing about, keep doing the things that earn you a living that you've been trained to do, because that "dream" without any further effort is worthless to yourself or anybody else. I'm kind of reminded of the folks who "buy" into the concepts of MLM marketing because all they "hear" is the fabulous lifestyle of those who claim to have "made it" in the "biz" ... without any comprehension or real understanding of what it takes to get from 26 year old with no assets and no business experience to the fellow who is a "diamond" with a huge downline and millions of dollars of downline sales and his fancy cars and houses and airplanes and boats and high dollar tailored suits and custom made shoes ... all the trappings of his (or her) success can be yours, too. Just gotta' think and be rich, right?
And don't take this personally like I'm "trying to shoot you down" and get all insulted. What I'm trying to do here is give you a dose of reality about your false concept of being in a business. You have nothing demonstrated at this point to suggest you have a viable chance of having anything to sell, much less the ability to run the business profitably to sell it. Your passion for dreaming about doing business stuff and reaping secure financial benefit is in no way equivalent to actually doing it.
You don't have to take my word for these concepts. Head on down to your local bank(s) and see what they require to loan money in their commercial lending department. And at this point, you don't even have something to take to venture capital funds/investors, let alone the SBA.
PS: If you think my reasoning and questions are rude, nasty, personally insulting or an affront to you now ... just wait until you've got people with hard cash invested in your performance. You'll need to cultivate your hardshell pretty quickly.
These "rich" folks that try to get you involved in their scams, then give you the classic dumb look when you ask them how they determine market saturation points, economies of scale, etc.
They seem to get real popular during recessionary times.....
What I'm trying to tell you is that you don't have the perspective or ability to be in business at this time. That's any business.
If you need to make money to survive and are good at Sales, then this is a career path that can reward you far better than trying to do things that you don't know about.
It doesn't appear that you have any background, experience, or training in virtually any of the businesses that you propose to pursue, nor do you have any demonstrated business operations experience or management.
I think you'd do better to ask yourself what is your motivation to be in business? Do you think that if you were simply given a chance that you'd do better than folks who are in whatever business you're dreaming about? What do you think you'll accomplish in that business? Is it sales of a product or service which you have yet to create?
Put this in perspective: you can have the absolutely best item of it's type in the world for sale ... but if you can't bring it to the market or sell it, then you don't have a business. There's lots of inventors and inventions which have never made it to market, have never been anything but big sinkholes for venture capital. Success in business is the result of a lot of hard work, dedication, and capital.
If it was as easy as selling ice cubes to folks without refrigeration ... then you'd have a lot of competitors seeking the same easy money. It's not that easy.
So, until you have something more than an "I want to be in business" dream to do stuff which you know nothing about, keep doing the things that earn you a living that you've been trained to do, because that "dream" without any further effort is worthless to yourself or anybody else. I'm kind of reminded of the folks who "buy" into the concepts of MLM marketing because all they "hear" is the fabulous lifestyle of those who claim to have "made it" in the "biz" ... without any comprehension or real understanding of what it takes to get from 26 year old with no assets and no business experience to the fellow who is a "diamond" with a huge downline and millions of dollars of downline sales and his fancy cars and houses and airplanes and boats and high dollar tailored suits and custom made shoes ... all the trappings of his (or her) success can be yours, too. Just gotta' think and be rich, right?
And don't take this personally like I'm "trying to shoot you down" and get all insulted. What I'm trying to do here is give you a dose of reality about your false concept of being in a business. You have nothing demonstrated at this point to suggest you have a viable chance of having anything to sell, much less the ability to run the business profitably to sell it. Your passion for dreaming about doing business stuff and reaping secure financial benefit is in no way equivalent to actually doing it.
You don't have to take my word for these concepts. Head on down to your local bank(s) and see what they require to loan money in their commercial lending department. And at this point, you don't even have something to take to venture capital funds/investors, let alone the SBA.
PS: If you think my reasoning and questions are rude, nasty, personally insulting or an affront to you now ... just wait until you've got people with hard cash invested in your performance. You'll need to cultivate your hardshell pretty quickly.
I think you're misunderstood on what my goals are. I'm not looking to go into business today, next year, or even the year after that. I'm simply asking what ARE the skills I need? Where DO I go to get the experience? You say keep working in sales, but how will that get me the knowledge and understanding to be someone that can market a product/service successfully? What do I need to do right now to change my path to be one the long road that leads to being an entrepreneur?
You've told me a thousand ways why I shouldn't start a company because I'm way underqualified, and I know this. Why don't you try pointing me in the right direction?
I think you're misunderstood on what my goals are. I'm not looking to go into business today, next year, or even the year after that. I'm simply asking what ARE the skills I need? Where DO I go to get the experience? You say keep working in sales, but how will that get me the knowledge and understanding to be someone that can market a product/service successfully? What do I need to do right now to change my path to be one the long road that leads to being an entrepreneur?
You've told me a thousand ways why I shouldn't start a company because I'm way underqualified, and I know this. Why don't you try pointing me in the right direction?
You're still working from a series of false premises and an attitude which is counter productive to your stated goal of being in business for yourself.
When I read through your posts #1 and #6, you delineate several glaring shortcomings:
1) You've stated the concept that hard work ... as taught you by your college background ... has worn thin already in your short working years as an expendable employee.
If you're ever going to go into business, you've got to recognize and accept that you'll need to work significantly harder than ever, much harder than you ever did as an employee. Particularly with some of the businesses you've mentioned ... long hours and hard work are the cornerstone of possible rewards.
2) You've stated you have no assets (due to circumstances from others), but have worked for successful companies using your degrees.
You've got to understand that going into a business earnings mentality with any chance of financial success requires an attitude of financial sacrifice, thrift, and savings. You've got to be ready, willing, and able to live below your means. If you haven't been able to do that with your compensation already, you've got to change your whole lifestyle paradigm to one of thrift and savings. If you think it's not easy to live on your current income which is apparently below your expectations or requirements, what do you think will happen when you don't have a steady paycheck/income from your own business?
3) For someone who claims degrees, which suggests some independent thinking ability, you don't appear to have availed yourself of the college resources of business practices.
There's lots of places to learn about the business of business. Everywhere from business incubators, to community college classes, to business/management classes at a college. You cannot get this information for free, it's going to take time and effort upon your part which I'm not impressed at this point that you are willing to expend. Even if you go the apprenticeship route with an existing business, it will still cost you in many ways to glean the knowledge you seek. It's neither a trivial or easy path. Perhaps you have some associates or others you know who have gone into business for themselves, and are now making a living at it. Sit down with them and ask about what it takes to be there with overhead expenses, taxation, capital investment, labor costs, physical plant/storefront ... there's so many places where you must be an expert or hire one to be successful that it's a very daunting prospect. Some folks will pick it up, some won't ... some succeed in spite of their ignorance ... and many "smart and technically proficient people" don't.
Business is about SELLING a product or service at a profit. That's why I'm conflicted when you say that you're good technically, but don't like to sell. I've tried to point this out to you ... you can write the best software, design the best product, have the best food at your restaurant, know somebody who can offer a recording contract to a new talent, etc etc etc ... but if you can't SELL your product or services, then they will not succeed in the marketplace. People don't beat a path to a better mousetrap without being sold on the benefits of that mousetrap. I would have inferred that you learned that concept in getting a marketing degree, but apparently ... not.
What further conflicts me with your comments is that you have such wide ranges of possible businesses to be involved in. They're all so diverse it suggests no passion in any of them .. except that you want to be in business and see something about those ventures that attracts you. Do you think that without any background in these businesses you can be a success given all the competition to any and all of those businesses?
So I'd ask again, what do you think being in business for yourself is going to accomplish? Wealth? Fame? Easy job requirements? Lots of time off for recreation? A "job well done" satisfaction of some sort? Feeding your ego? Adoring employees (who you see as disposable tools to your succes)? What drives you?
You've simply got to answer this question honestly for yourself before you can go forward with any business. You will not get the direction and focus of what your potential business is about until you know why you're doing it, nor can you effectively train for it until you know why you're doing it.
And finally, you need to ask yourself what is the price you're willing to pay personally to try to achieve success in your chosen business. What is the cost you are willing to pay? economically, socially, professionally? What will you do to achieve business success?
Absent honest answers to those questions ... nobody can give you a roadmap of training/instruction of how to be in business. You're still only a candidate for being an employee until you can grasp what it is you're all about.
I kind of disagree with you that you must have a background in a certain field to open a business in that particular field. A friend of a friend opened a yoga studio because he saw a demand in yoga classes in his area. He had never taken a yoga class before in his life prior to opening the studio. He hired a couple of yoga instructors and they do most of the work while he handles the finances of the business. The yoga studio has been so successful that he has opened a second one. He did not have a background in yoga but still managed to open a successful yoga studio.
If the demand is there and you know how to supply it, you will more then likely win.
I kind of disagree with you that you must have a background in a certain field to open a business in that particular field. A friend of a friend opened a yoga studio because he saw a demand in yoga classes in his area. He had never taken a yoga class before in his life prior to opening the studio. He hired a couple of yoga instructors and they do most of the work while he handles the finances of the business. The yoga studio has been so successful that he has opened a second one. He did not have a background in yoga but still managed to open a successful yoga studio.
If the demand is there and you know how to supply it, you will more then likely win.
I agree that you'll find notable exceptions to the concept of practical knowledge of the business you are in being of value to the success of the business.
I, too, know of people who have zero technical knowledge in the IT biz but have hired talent who knew the technical side and have marketed it to their benefit. And others who didn't know squat about the car repair business but bought an existing shop with a compentent manager, service writer, parts people, and techs and have been successful "fixing cars" where they had an established business and local demand. And there's a heck of a lot of people who buy "franchise" businesses where the model and operations are closely directed by the franchisor ... with people from many diverse backgrounds coming into the business: restaurants, fast food, janitorial, entertainment (movie theater, arcades), pet shops, coffee shops, delivery/courier services, motels ....
They all had earned their discretionary investment monies in other businesses and understood staffing, management, overhead/expense, location, taxes, insurance, industry compliance requirements, sales and marketing, time management, purchasing, inventory control, manufacturing processes, office management/receivables/collections/accounts payable concerns, licensing (where required), zoning/public safety issues (fire dept compliance, etc), maintenance. They all knew that they had to work hard, with long hours, to insure their success in another new-to-them venture. They all knew and understood the concepts of "relationship selling" at the front side of the house and understood how to market their business and services.
Most all of them were successful, but then again, many were not, especially in more recent economic times. Restaurants, especially, were seeing a high failure rate.
Now, I don't know about your "friend of a friend" ... but I'll bet that their business acumen and the ability to sell the services of a yoga studio and retain clients didn't happen just because they determined a market niche/need which they decided they could fulfill. Add to all the other skills of business which I've mentioned so far, and you've got interior design concerns and facilities layout and decor. Most signficantly, I'll bet they didn't open the doors and operate the retail discretionary service business (let alone acquire a location without a lease or ownership investment, secured by their personal guarantee, or without posting a security deposit for the business utilities) with personal zero credit, no assets, no investment capital, and a handshake with a low-cost investor who wasn't worried about securing their investment, or a good working relationship with a business insurance agent against their personal liability for injuries or other claims that could be anticipated in the performance of their business. We won't even expolore WC or UI insurance for the employees, State/Fed employer ID, or defined benefits for employees, certifications, and other personnel issues.
Nor will we explore building/facilities maintenance, upkeep, or janitorial services and those affiliated costs for HVAC and building systems or plumbing. I'd even bet that they incorporated the business to gain the protection of a corporate shell rather than leaving themselves totally exposed as sole proprietors to claims against them, which means they have a more than passing acquaintance with a business savvy lawyer.
See where I'm going with this? There's so many facets to deciding a market need/niche to fill (which suggests some familiarity with the business activity, doesn't it?), so many factors to fulfilling that need, and they all represent risk and capital investment issues ... which takes somebody with investment capital and a willingness to work for their goals.
Unless you can come forward with a success story about a "friend of a friend" who had no capital, no credit, no business experience, and no hospitality or service business expertise, didn't want to work hard ... I'd say that your disagreement with my premises for the OP doesn't hold water .... The odds of being a success from a profound level of ignorance about doing a business is pretty slim.
Further, I can cite a much larger sample base of businesses that didn't make it if you want to play that game ....
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