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Old 07-28-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,315,618 times
Reputation: 1802

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
I am acquainted with the decision.

Julea Ward at Eastern Michigan University refused to counsel homosexual clients (a client she was assigned happened to be homosexual) as part of the university's Masters program in counseling. She claimed that her religion justified her refusal to counsel homosexuals.

Of course, a student can't just refuse to complete required steps and then claim "But I'm doing it for my religion, so you have to give me the degree anyway!".
Thanks for the clarification since Curmudgeon was basically going into orbit and venting unrelated topics. Once a decision goes down some people get all upset and make emotion ridden statements and attack others as "crazy" or not being part of this country!
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,081,702 times
Reputation: 49243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
One arm of the Feds caused the problem, now another ensures it continues. What a country.

I guess your chattering mojado brothers will reinvade poor AZ now.
I could cry I am so upset about this. Not too many rulings in my many years have upset me as much as this. I can only think of one possible good thing that could come out of it: the Americans are going to be so pissed it might be the end for Obama. No, he didn't direstly take the action or make the decision, but he certainly supported it.

Nita
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Thanks for the clarification since Curmudgeon was basically going into orbit and venting unrelated topics. Once a decision goes down some people get all upset and make emotion ridden statements and attack others as "crazy" or not being part of this country!
Nice try but they're not unrelated. They actually go to the heart of Constitutional protections, state's rights and much more. At least you were right about my background, much of which dealt with Constitutional law and the eroding freedoms in this country.

I don't disagree that Ms. Ward should not be given the counseling post-graduate degree but rather than being expelled the college may have offered to divert her. Perhaps that occurred but thus far I've seen no evidence of it. If something like that emerges I am open to changing my opinion.

However, I'm absolutely intractible when it come to any law, or suspension thereof, that makes it easier or more comfortable for illegals to remain in our country. That does not follow the rule of law one whit.

If you support illegals entering the U.S. and/or remaining here then in my opinion, your loyalties are not with this country but with another.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,315,618 times
Reputation: 1802
Arizona has egg all over its face and was put in its place by the federal government. Actually Arizona should be secretly pleased that they have been taken off the hook by the courts. All the backlash against Arizona should ease up now and their governor can focus on improving the image.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,081,702 times
Reputation: 49243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
One arm of the Feds caused the problem, now another ensures it continues. What a country.

I guess your chattering mojado brothers will reinvade poor AZ now.
I could cry I am so upset about this. Not too many rulings in my many years have upset me as much as this. I can only think of one possible good thing that could come out of it: the Americans are going to be so pissed it might be the end for Obama. No, he didn't direstly take the action or make the decision, but he certainly supported it.

The other good news, it isn't as bad as it might sound or as good to people like those who believe it is ok to come here illegally. It was thrown out or over ruled at least.

Nita
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Arizona has egg all over its face and was put in its place by the federal government. Actually Arizona should be secretly pleased that they have been taken off the hook by the courts. All the backlash against Arizona should ease up now and their governor can focus on improving the image.
If any place needs a vision improvement it's Mexico. Yet their presidente was roundly applauded by the left side of the aisle when he spoke scathingly about the U.S. and out policies and tried to push more gun control on us -- this from the "leader" of a backwater with more murders than their feeble system can count.

The egg continues to be on the visage of the impotent feds and the Annointed One who can't uphold the law so they try to make end runs around it.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,411 posts, read 10,315,618 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Nice try but they're not unrelated. They actually go to the heart of Constitutional protections, state's rights and much more. At least you were right about my background, much of which dealt with Constitutional law and the eroding freedoms in this country.

I don't disagree that Ms. Ward should not be given the counseling post-graduate degree but rather than being expelled the college may have offered to divert her. Perhaps that occurred but thus far I've seen no evidence of it. If something like that emerges I am open to changing my opinion.

However, I'm absolutely intractible when it come to any law, or suspension thereof, that makes it easier or more comfortable for illegals to remain in our country. That does not follow the rule of law one whit.

If you support illegals entering the U.S. and/or remaining here then in my opinion, your loyalties are not with this country but with another.
I've made it very clear that the border must be closed and that the federal government is negligent in securing our country. But there is no way a yahoo state like Arizona is going to take on federal responsibility especially since they already have a history of making poor decisions on a variety of topics.

Your comment about federal authority is a two-edged sword. I am fully aware that if California legalizes marijuana that the federal government may very well void that decision. Even though I am in favor of legalizing marijuana doesn't mean I will get all pissed and accuse our nation of being against it's own people.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,081,702 times
Reputation: 49243
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
I'm not acquainted with the religious court decision and don't think it has any application to this discussion. Maybe you could post that topic on a different thread. But first, put down that cup of coffee because your nerves are getting jittery and stay on topic please!
wow, we have a new moderator, his name is Calsur and he is telling posters to stay on topic. Actually he is on topic, he is referring to federal court decisions.
Nita
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
I've made it very clear that the border must be closed and that the federal government is negligent in securing our country. But there is no way a yahoo state like Arizona is going to take on federal responsibility especially since they already have a history of making poor decisions on a variety of topics.

Your comment about federal authority is a two-edged sword. I am fully aware that if California legalizes marijuana that the federal government may very well void that decision. Even though I am in favor of legalizing marijuana doesn't mean I will get all pissed and accuse our nation of being against it's own people.
Talk about a "yahoo state." You just described what's south of the border perfectly.

As for the marijuana issue, I think there may be a slight difference. The bulk of the country seems to approve of Arizona's attempt. I'm not convinced most of the country approves legalization of MJ. But I suppose I could be wrong. If it did pass and became country-wide the drug cartels woiuld just have to amp-up their production of heroin, crack and cocaine.

What a world we live in!
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:11 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,968,385 times
Reputation: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Nice try but they're not unrelated. They actually go to the heart of Constitutional protections, state's rights and much more. At least you were right about my background, much of which dealt with Constitutional law and the eroding freedoms in this country.

I don't disagree that Ms. Ward should not be given the counseling post-graduate degree but rather than being expelled the college may have offered to divert her. Perhaps that occurred but thus far I've seen no evidence of it. If something like that emerges I am open to changing my opinion.

However, I'm absolutely intractible when it come to any law, or suspension thereof, that makes it easier or more comfortable for illegals to remain in our country. That does not follow the rule of law one whit.

If you support illegals entering the U.S. and/or remaining here then in my opinion, your loyalties are not with this country but with another.
Offered to divert her? To what, a degree in something like geology or linguistics, where her insistence on discriminating against homosexuals wouldn't run afoul of the curriculum?

If Julea Ward wanted a degree is some other program, she could have applied for admission to such a program. If there is evidence that she applied to some such program, and was denied "because of her religious beliefs", then bring it on. If such is the case, it is not only wrong but should be illegal. But there is no evidence that such is the case. Julea Ward did not sue to be allowed to study something, anything, at Eastern Michigan University - rather, she filed suit contending that the university should have allowed her to reject counseling cases involving homosexual issues in order to get her Masters Degree in Counseling.

She refused, and was expelled from the program. Rightly so.
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