Prop 8 overturned (San Diego, Montclair, Bishop: home, fence, bus)

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

That wouldn't really be a problem as there are certain churches that aren't quite as hostile toward gays and lesbians.

That's another huge complaint I have with the pro-gay marriage side.

They have successfully convinced people that churches who don't support gay marriage are automatically hostile towards gays and lesbians.

And that just reaks of a spoiled-brat mentality that 'if you don't agree with everything I want, then you obviously hate me and Im going to come after you."

They don't want dialogue, they don't want to come to an understanding. No, they only want to rattle off a list of demands, everyone else be damned.

[Gentoo]

I'm not crazy about interracial marriages because it puts the children

Now I am slowly losing that respect for you. This is just crap as I come from a multi racial family and also know plenty of bi-racial children. The only thing they complain about are people like you who say they have it hard which then makes it hard.

I need to stop with this topic.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

No, you simply expect Person A to tolerate Person B, even though Person B preaches how awful Person A is.

When during or after the prop 8 campaign has the yes campaign 'preached how awful' gays are?

Ahem. They never did.

That's another lie by the No-on-8 side that their followers have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

That wouldn't really be a problem as there are certain churches that aren't quite as hostile toward gays and lesbians.

Episcopalians and Lutherans allow gay marriage of both lay people and clergy and have been roundly criticized by fellow so-called Christians as being against God!

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Bull. There was a time when the vast majority of Americans wanted a segregated society and voted accordingly, that is, until the Supreme Court ruled that discrimination is wrong and ended a hundred years of Jim Crow, et al.

So, are you saying that your family fought to keep Jim Crow? Are you saying the majority should always rule, even if what the majority wants is a severe violation of the U. S. Constitution such as denying people their civil rights?

There's a reason we have courts, and a Supreme Court, that does what's right, not what all forms of bigots want.

Re-read what I said about this being a republic. If you need a lesson regarding what it means, I'll be happy to provide it.

I was alive and conscious during those bad old times you referenced and found them apalling. It was incomprehensible to me as a youngster in Alabama to be told I couldn't play with black children because it would "cause problems." It was a lesson I never forgot and I most certainly haven't been a proponent for discrimination.

It's likely that this will eventually go to the Supreme Court as well it should to decide the issue once and for all instead of all this piece-mealing. On balance, however, is the issue of state's rights. None of this is as simplistic as you and others are trying to make it.

[californio sur]

I find it ironic that Catholics who agree with their bishops against gay marriage even if it applies to their own children then turn on the church in anger when those same bishops condemn Arizona's immigrant law. Can't have it both ways. And I am a Catholic.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

That's another huge complaint I have with the pro-gay marriage side.

They have successfully convinced people that churches who don't support gay marriage are automatically hostile towards gays and lesbians.

And that just reaks of a spoiled-brat mentality that 'if you don't agree with everything I want, then you obviously hate me and Im going to come after you."

They don't want dialogue, they don't want to come to an understanding. No, they only want to rattle off a list of demands, everyone else be damned.

Never thought I'd see the day you and I would get into it but today's the day lol

There are churches that are hostile toward gays and lesbians. No way you can convince me otherwise since I've been to such churches. There's a Pentecostal church here in San Diego that's exactly that. I've been to other protestant churches that are the same way. Why do you think so many blacks voted for prop 8? Most blacks are protestant and many (though not all) of those churches openly criticized the gay lifestyle. If you're not on the receiving end, it's easy to miss how this may be hostile. However, when an institution that of any kind, church or otherwise basically tells you that you are not entitled to the same treatment as those whom they deem "acceptable", that's hostile.

[ZhugeLiang]

Tough to argue with the judge's ruling. They pretty much nailed it cold.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

When during or after the prop 8 campaign has the yes campaign 'preached how awful' gays are?

Ahem. They never did.

That's another lie by the No-on-8 side that their followers have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

That is not true at all. There were churches here in San Diego that did exactly that.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Episcopalians and Lutherans allow gay marriage of both lay people and clergy and have been roundly criticized by fellow so-called Christians as being against God!

I don't even care if a church performs gay marriage. Go right ahead.

But I do see a huge battle emerging where churches who do not perform gay marriages are going to have to explain themselves as if they are preaching something new.