California 47th in the nation in education (Los Angeles, Oakland: new home, find a job)

[Pretzelogik]

Originally Posted by Charles

Simple solution: Eliminate government schools. All private. Parent's choice. No more problems with religion in schools, gay controversies, teacher tenure and union problems, bureaucracies. Market economy. Private schools are much less expensive in $/student.

Hey what do you think this is...a free country or somethin'?

[twiggy]

In regards to the original threads statement.
Well, at least you are above us here in AZ. lol I find this hard to believe, the west has some work to do in regards to education it seems. I figured in our state but I'm a little surprised about California.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by jaynetarzana

Experts agree that prop 13 is one of the top reasons schools are suffering in the state. It is pretty common sense; prior to prop 13 property taxes represented 50% of the funding for schools. Post prop 13, property taxes represent only 20% of the funding for schools, so schools are left struggling. Sure, there are people who benefit from prop 13 (and you can tell who they are because they will come onto this forum and tell everyone who speaks ill of prop 13 that they are wrong, wrong, wrong!), but it isn't our future generations. Yes, parent involvement is extremely important, but we owe it to our kids to offer them a solid public education.

I love how people who bash up on Prop 13 don't seem to have an answer when it comes to all the money CA has wasted over the decades. We have a large population, so there is plenty of tax revenue to go around and among the highest taxes in America to boot. Prop 13 has nothing to do with the lack of education funding, none, zlich, nada.

All you're doing is repeating the same non-sequitur over and over again.

The people who want Prop 13 repealed are the public sector union members and their henchmen to drain the people for more tax money to prop up their bloated pensions. What Prop 13 bashers are essentially saying is that the taxpayer must give up their future to support those of the public sector union workers.

Education funding is a red herring.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

I love how people who bash up on Prop 13 don't seem to have an answer when it comes to all the money CA has wasted over the decades. We have a large population, so there is plenty of tax revenue to go around and among the highest taxes in America to boot. Prop 13 has nothing to do with the lack of education funding, none, zlich, nada.

All you're doing is repeating the same non-sequitur over and over again.

The people who want Prop 13 repealed are the public sector union members and their henchmen to drain the people for more tax money to prop up their bloated pensions. What Prop 13 bashers are essentially saying is that the taxpayer must give up their future to support those of the public sector union workers.

Education funding is a red herring.

You couldn't be more wrong. I posted what's below to you in another thread as well. Proposition 13 took local control and local revenues away from the counties and gave them to the state. Local government, both municipal and county, foundered so the state came up with the idea of realignment funds. Those weren't sufficient because the state general fund is primarily based upon income taxes which have always been variable. School funding was in the toilet so the people, in their infinite wisdom, passed Proposition 98 which dedicates 40% of all state revenues to education and it's still not enough.

So many laws and so many propositions have been passed that have resulted in categorical funding that there is really very little that government at any level has to work with because most of it is tied up by law. The entire budget process is a red herring and Prop. 13 started the trend.

California paralyzed by government » Ventura County Star

[Ultralight]

Originally Posted by Donna7

I hear what you are saying but it sounds to me like the other 60% are now subsidizing the 40% that would be priced out of their home should Prop. 13 be repealed. Is Prop. 13 holding the property values artifically high? If so, then Prop. 13 stinks. It stinks for the fact that ALL people are not paying property taxes based on the fair market value of their house. Why should someone be paying $700 per year because the parents left their house to them quietly before they passed while another person who just bought a house gets stuck with a $15,000 annual bill for a similiar property in the same neighborhood. Something is very amiss with this system.

Not saying that you say (or even think) this, but for the people that keep crying about how "liberal" CA is and "wealth re-distribution", it sure seems that they like this Prop. 13 which sure sounds like wealth re-distribution model to me. Seems that they like anything that props them and their agenda up regardless of who gets screwed in the process. I find it hard to believe that there are only two choices: (1) Prop. 13 or (2) wildly fluctuating property taxes every year.

Going from #1 to #47 indicates that there is a HUGE problem. All roads seem to point to Prop. 13 as being a leading factor in all of the mess. Sounds like Prop. 13 is some sort of holy grail or something in CA. Give us all a break. Some of us have money to spend and relocate, but I sure as heck do not feel like subsidizing some old-time home owner in CA who partakes of all the same infrastructure, services, schools as everyone else but gets their ride subsidized by those who just moved in and bought a home. Grossly unfair.

Well putt prop13 is a grossly unfair and fiscaly stupid measure based on massive and regressive wealth redistrubution away from first time hombyers to seniors tottaly anti market and anti sence however their is sound and growing oppostion to prop13 espacially amongst younger people.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by jaynetarzana

Experts agree that prop 13 is one of the top reasons schools are suffering in the state. It is pretty common sense; prior to prop 13 property taxes represented 50% of the funding for schools. Post prop 13, property taxes represent only 20% of the funding for schools, so schools are left struggling. Sure, there are people who benefit from prop 13 (and you can tell who they are because they will come onto this forum and tell everyone who speaks ill of prop 13 that they are wrong, wrong, wrong!), but it isn't our future generations. Yes, parent involvement is extremely important, but we owe it to our kids to offer them a solid public education.

Is Prop 13 to blame for California's near-bottom per-pupil funding in the country? Prop 13's Impact On Schools | KPBS.org

Prop 13: The Battle Between Taxpayer and Taxes | KPBS.org

and look at who those so called experts are: mostly raving libs..Again, I am saying mostly....

Nita

[Charles]

Originally Posted by jaynetarzana

I hadn't realized that you moved back to Southern California, Charles. You spent so much time in the California forum, it seemed like it was only a matter of time. Can I ask how you feel about the schools themselves? Were the schools in AL better kept up than the schools where you live now?

Yes, we just bought a house in Orange County. I've been in SoCal since Feb, wife and kids since June after HSV schools finished.

As far as schools seems like it is probably about the same. But like Southern California (or any other school system) there are new schools and old schools, schools with high achieving kids and schools with low achieving kids, schools with highly educated, affluent parents, and schools with lots of ESL parents/immigrants, single family, low income parents. Huntsville is very segregated you're either in a good school or a bad school. Huntsville is pretty much low income blacks on the north side of town and educated whites (most of whom have some sort of tie to the aerospace industry) on the south and east sides of town and in Madison. Compare that to inner city LA on one side and with Conejo Valley or Irvine and South Orange County on the other side.

We were fortunate enough to live in a nice neighborhood (Hampton Cove) with good schools (Hampton Cove Elementary/Middle, Huntsville High School):

[Charles]

Originally Posted by jaynetarzana

Experts agree that prop 13 is one of the top reasons schools are suffering in the state. It is pretty common sense; prior to prop 13 property taxes represented 50% of the funding for schools.

Is it a matter of $/student? Notice how LAUSD spends almost $29,000 more per year on a student than Saddleback schools do. (Data from GreatSchools website.)

Madison City Schools, Alabama
Great Schools 9
Spending per pupil $8,008
Free Lunch 16%

Irvine
Great Schools 10
Spending per pupil $8296
Free Lunch 7%

Conejo Valley Unified
Great Schools 9
Spending per pupil $7772
Free Lunch 13%

Saddleback Valley Unified
Great Schools 9
Spending per pupil $7631
Free Lunch 16%

Los Angeles Unified School District
Great Schools 4
Spending per pupil $10430
Free Lunch 43%

[jaynetarzana]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

I love how people who bash up on Prop 13 don't seem to have an answer when it comes to all the money CA has wasted over the decades. We have a large population, so there is plenty of tax revenue to go around and among the highest taxes in America to boot. Prop 13 has nothing to do with the lack of education funding, none, zlich, nada.

All you're doing is repeating the same non-sequitur over and over again.

The people who want Prop 13 repealed are the public sector union members and their henchmen to drain the people for more tax money to prop up their bloated pensions. What Prop 13 bashers are essentially saying is that the taxpayer must give up their future to support those of the public sector union workers.

Education funding is a red herring.

Your posts don't even make sense so I have to assume you are a troll. First, look up non-sequitur, there isn't anything that I said that could be defined as such. Education funding is red herring? Exactly what is it diverting attention FROM? Because I think that funding our schools is a pretty darn important issue. To say prop 13 has nothing to do with lack of education funding is simply deciding to ignore the facts. When prop 13 passed, 30% of the funding that was going to the schools was cut off. Period.

Property taxes in California are not outrageous. It isn't fair that some homeowners are forced to pay the full amount and some are not. There are plenty of these seniors who could easily afford their tax bills and a lot of young families who cannot. It seems that politicians seem to protect seniors at any cost and completely forget about the future generations of this country. Social security will most likely be gone by the time we're of age to collect it.

[jaynetarzana]

Originally Posted by Charles

Is it a matter of $/student? Notice how LAUSD spends almost $29,000 more per year on a student than Saddleback schools do. (Data from GreatSchools website.)

Madison City Schools, Alabama
Great Schools 9
Spending per pupil $8,008
Free Lunch 16%

Irvine
Great Schools 10
Spending per pupil $8296
Free Lunch 7%

Conejo Valley Unified
Great Schools 9
Spending per pupil $7772
Free Lunch 13%

Saddleback Valley Unified
Great Schools 9
Spending per pupil $7631
Free Lunch 16%

Los Angeles Unified School District
Great Schools 4
Spending per pupil $10430
Free Lunch 43%

It is a reality that it costs more to educate a population of non-native English speakers who cannot expect help at home from parents and need free lunch because they live below the poverty level. But that is California. The problem is that pulling funding from schools reduces services. It also makes it more difficult to maintain good teachers and a school building we are proud to send our children into every day.