A question about California's political history (Los Angeles: crime, loans, home)

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Also not to be discounted are shifts in the principal political parties. Each has become more of what used to be stereotypical descriptions, moving to the outer fringes and most radical of their philosophies and increasingly away from not just one another but the preferences of many voters. This almost complete polarization and partisanship has also had an effect on the people and I think that will have a significant impact on voting trends in the future.

Amen to that.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

You must have lived through a different 60s than I did (if you were even alive then). During my 60s labor unions were much stronger than they are today and were loaded with all those "hard-working" Greatest Generation folks who came back from the War, then went to school on the G.I. Bill mostly at state colleges and universities, bought homes through the FHA and VA government loan programs in suburbs made possible by the government funded interstate highway system and intra-state water project. Many went on to jobs in the government funded aerospace industry or for other government contractors. Oh, and in my 60s they passed Medicare and the Civil Rights Act, two of the most intrusive government initiatives ever devised. Believe me, Californians at the time, including most Republicans, were fully on board if not at the forefront of all of this government largesse. California was built by big government. Perhaps you were somewhere else then?

I lived through the same 60s that you did in CA, but for three years out-of-state and out-of-country because of some pesky matter in SE Asia. But it is rather ironic the the CA Republicans of the day were nurtured by and, in turn, loyal to major corporations funded primarily by government/military contracts.

Then the worm turned. Aerospace began moving to other states with more business-friendly climates, numerous bases were closed, other corporations down-sized, moved out, especially headquarters, and off-shored many functions. Left principally to the vagaries of "free market enterprise," look at where CA is now! Even GM, Ford and Chrysler bailed out of the state over the years.

Maybe we just all need to start from scratch again!

[BluSpark]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

Even in the 60s, San Francisco had a Republican mayor, George Christopher, who ran for governor against Reagan in '66. There were two wings to the party back then, the Goldwaterites behind Reagan, and the Nixon/Rockefeller folks who supported Christopher. As I recall back then, the Inland Empire Republicans were more moderate than those in Orange County, the bastion of the Right.

Yes...and even as Governor, Reagan may have rhetorically sounded like a conservative but at least in fiscal matters he governed more like a moderate by RAISING taxes to balance the state's budget.

[Highnlite]

My autistic brother swings every conversation back to his time at Cal Poly in the 60's and early 70's, but, he is autistic.
Someone interjects references to his military service into every post, so, same difference? 70% of the time in question he was in California.

G.I. Bill mostly at state colleges and universities, bought homes through the FHA and VA government loan programs in suburbs made possible by the government funded interstate highway system and intra-state water project. Many went on to jobs in the government funded aerospace industry or for other government contractors. Oh, and in my 60s they passed Medicare and the Civil Rights Act, two of the most intrusive government initiatives ever devised. Believe me, Californians at the time, including most Republicans, were fully on board if not at the forefront of all of this government largesse. California was built by big government. Perhaps you were somewhere else then?

good socialist stuff, eh? Socialism appears to work just fine, it has made all of our lives better.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

My autistic brother swings every conversation back to his time at Cal Poly in the 60's and early 70's, but, he is autistic.
Someone interjects references to his military service into every post, so, same difference? 70% of the time in question he was in California.

good socialist stuff, eh? Socialism appears to work just fine, it has made all of our lives better.

Whereas someone else interjects his purely partisan political point of view and self-perceived superiority into just about every post and really needs to go chase after someone he can catch.

So your "autistic brother" is autistic, huh? Never would have guessed. Pity!

G'Day!

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Back in the 1960's people were willing to work, were not looking for the state unions to save them, didn't need a handout, and were family oriented. People studied history and new about what was happening in the world. We didn't want socialistic medicine to permeate the state. Remember that Spocialism and Communism were our enemies back then. For the most part we had Conservative idealism in the state. Even those that voted as Democrats had more conservative thoughts than todays Democrats.


Liberal values are where we want the state involved in our life from the cradle to the grave. Socialism is something that many desire. We want the government to give us everything and don't seem to care how it gets paid for. Let others worry about that, as long as we get what we want now. Give us public transportation, rental assistance, low crime low cost housing, let us smoke pot but keep us from those that smoke ciggarettes. Make sure we all have a job but keep the evil employers out of our state. Give us an education but don't charge us to get that degree we seek for. Please keep the oil drilling out of our state but don't make us pay more for gasoline.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Back in the 1960's people were willing to work, were not looking for the state unions to save them, didn't need a handout, and were family oriented. People studied history and new about what was happening in the world. We didn't want socialistic medicine to permeate the state. Remember that Spocialism and Communism were our enemies back then. For the most part we had Conservative idealism in the state. Even those that voted as Democrats had more conservative thoughts than todays Democrats.


Liberal values are where we want the state involved in our life from the cradle to the grave. Socialism is something that many desire. We want the government to give us everything and don't seem to care how it gets paid for. Let others worry about that, as long as we get what we want now. Give us public transportation, rental assistance, low crime low cost housing, let us smoke pot but keep us from those that smoke ciggarettes. Make sure we all have a job but keep the evil employers out of our state. Give us an education but don't charge us to get that degree we seek for. Please keep the oil drilling out of our state but don't make us pay more for gasoline.

Most of what you assert is correct and funny but also desirable to me! Socialism keeps people safe; take a look at crime rates in countries like Canada, France, Spain, Sweden, etc. Civilized people make every attempt to improve the lifes of others. Capitalists are only interested in themselves even it if means innocent people are hurt. Like those supporting Prop 23 who want to slow down anti-pollution efforts because they don't want to lose money! Power companies from Texas and Wyoming are pouring in $ to fund this proposition instead of using their money to find better ways to cut the pollution they create. If that's American-style Capitalism then give me socialism any day!

[CAVA1990]

We're a long way from socialism. Our social safety net now is about on par with the third world's. I'd say our current form of government is Corporatism with everything stacked in favor of big business, finance, and the military/internal security complex. In many ways it resembles a meaner brand of Mussolini's fascism.

[Highnlite]

Whereas someone else interjects his purely partisan political point of view and self-perceived superiority into just about every post and really needs to go chase after someone he can catch.

So your "autistic brother" is autistic, huh? Never would have guessed. Pity!

G'Day!

I will take the G'Day, and you will, of course, keep your "glory days" such as they were, I would love to hear about your first ascents, or even your tertiary descents, or a bit of class four or class five white water action, but, we are stuck with the same old military glory days as are heard in every VFW Friday night spaghetti feed, but, I digress.

We're a long way from socialism.

Yes, of course, I tend to needle those among us who see socialism as some terrible evil, when the facts are that every modern industrial nation is socialist to some degree, and generally the nations that show themselves wealthier and happier than America, are all socialist to a high degree.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

I will take the G'Day, and you will, of course, keep your "glory days" such as they were, I would love to hear about your first ascents, or even your tertiary descents, or a bit of class four or class five white water action, but, we are stuck with the same old military glory days as are heard in every VFW Friday night spaghetti feed, but, I digress.

Yes, of course, I tend to needle those among us who see socialism as some terrible evil, when the facts are that every modern industrial nation is socialist to some degree, and generally the nations that show themselves wealthier and happier than America, are all socialist to a high degree.

Sorry, Clarks. Can't oblige. Only ascended and decended Mt. Fuji. Never white water rafted. Would have like to, though. Most of the rest of my free time was spent sailing in my youth. Jumped out of airplanes, rapelled, hunted and practiced martial arts for years but even those went by the wayside as children began arriving. As an adult raised five children on a single income and often took-in others' throw away children for anywhere from several months to a year or more. Didn't leave either free time or much money so most activities revolved around the childrens'. Hardly exciting other than the joy of watcching them enjoy and grow from the experiences and opportunities we provided. But many would likely find them pedestrian at the least.

By the way, lest you thought otherwise, I was not making light of your brothers mental state. I became significantly physically disabled in the 80s from which recovery was only partial and which continues to fairly significantly limit some physical activities, my wife is bipolar and she also lost most of the use of her right arm following a severe injury a few years ago. Not everyone is blessed with perfect health either physical or mental.

Nows for your needling re: socialism. Keep it up! As has been discussed, there was certainly at least a semi-socialist edge to California during its golden days and you're correct, it's definitely a factor in many other nations. Free enterprise and democracy are fine concepts and great experiments economically, socially and politically, but both can be taken to extremes. We're certainly seeing the results of that now.

By the way, I'm a lifetime member of the VFW at large and have never set foot in a VFW hall, much less attended a spaghetti dinner at one. Now if it's a steak grilling, let me know. I could be persuaded.

And again, G'Day!