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This has been validated by 4 other national studies regarding the public employee/private employee debate.
Study proves the private sector employees are still better compensated than the public sector; however, public sector employees carry a much higher level of education and put more emphysis on benefits and not pay. Look for yourself.
Captjob
Guess that jus' means we'uns here in Jellystone is smarter than the average bear.
While not disputing pensions are certainly an issue that both parties agree need to be addressed, let's also put the problem in perspective here.
This publication objectively analyzes the pension funding in multiple states, and finds California is in relatively good shape overall:
Pension liability: $454 billion Percent funded: 86.89% Employees in Pension Plans: 1,995, 169 California finds itself at the bottom of the list with the highest unfunded pension liability: $59.49 billion. Although the Golden State has the largest outstanding balance, it's still funded above the GAO-recommended 80 percent level. The state also has the highest amount of assets with $394.46 billion, with New York in a not-so-close second of $151.68 billion.
Thanks for your input. However, the same article also said this:
"...the Pew estimate does not include the stock-market losses of late 2008"
That means the analysis understates the true liabilities. So far, the gains in the stock & bond markets haven't made up for the big losses of 2008.
I do agree, however, that Calfornia isn't the worst offender when it comes to pension obligations. However, sometimes I think what passes for "average" is itself a low standard. I do appreciate the link, though.
Guess you folks don't keep up with the news much. Every union contract that Schwarzenegger has approved pursuant to the new budget contains BIG reductions in pension benefits for new hires. So you're excited over nothing.
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Which leads to the next question: who will work for the State when salaries and working conditions are already substandard and now there are no pension advantages either. Next time you get miffed at a State employee who is new or less than competent,remember:you get what you pay for.
If no one wants to work for the state in specific jobs or across the board, the state will do what private businesses do: either streamline to make work less labor intensive and/or raise salaries & benefits. It's no mystery and it's not that difficult to figure out.
Honestly, it all strikes me as a pretty straightforward problem.
We've had 20+ years of economic boom based on, well, not based on a whole lot but pushing around pieces of paper. The public generally has found itself in the position of the Coyote running off the cliff and has just looked down.
The thing is, government was allowed to grow along with the all of these bubbles, and it's a lot harder to cut back on headcount or compensation when you are dealing with monopolistic unions, cleverly worded contracts, and court decisions. The public safety people are, of course, the poster children for the most abuse of the system. Between 'chiefs disease', good PR, outright fibs (for instance, the supposed low life expectancy of retired officers), and the underlying threat of a strike, they've made out pretty well. Looking back, it's funny to think that the smart move would be to have been a cop.
This has been validated by 4 other national studies regarding the public employee/private employee debate.
Study proves the private sector employees are still better compensated than the public sector; however, public sector employees carry a much higher level of education and put more emphysis on benefits and not pay. Look for yourself.
Captjob
I tried several times to access the data with no luck...
I work in Medical and it is a fact the highest paid new grad RN's in State worked for the city and county of San Francisco...
I'm trying to find a private sector equivalent of Police and Fire with compensation anywhere near Public Sector... not saying it doesn't exist... just that I have not come across the data yet.
Education is also suspect... parochial school teachers earn no were near the public sector counterparts.
I don't think most would fall into the Hater category... but, it easy to understand when property owners are made out to be the bad guys for not supporting ever increasing tax burdens to fund public safety...
Family in law enforcement even as late as the early 70's have often said they had no idea the career would become so lucrative in later years after collective bargaining started. Law Enforcement was on the lower end of the scale for most of the last century... it definitely has changed and many recent retiree's will admit that in private if not publicly.
When seeking a private sector equivalent of police and fire, ensure that they are roughly comparable--not private mall security, but people whose job it is to do things like run into burning buildings or apprehend murderers and rapists.
The private sector's inefficiency is enormous compared to the public sector--but all the inefficiency is at the top, with the top executives earning salaries that are ludicrously high compared to those they received 20-30 years ago, while regular working stiffs get the shaft--if they are lucky enough to still be employed, their paychecks have been shrinking. And because taxes on the rich have been dropping during the same period (instead of the 90% top tax rate of the 1950s, it's now 36%, with capital gains even lower, and due to offshore accounting tricks, the big players don't even pay that much in taxes) the same people making less money (the middle class) are expected to pick up the tab for the wealthy.
And if the private sector employee is lucky enough to have any retirement package, it is now a 401K instead of the older model of private-sector pensions. And while people screech about how public-sector pension funds like PERS lost 25% of their value in the 2008 market crash, people's 401Ks lost 50% or more of their value. But somehow, this more volatile and risky vehicle receives no criticism at all.
When seeking a private sector equivalent of police and fire, ensure that they are roughly comparable--not private mall security, but people whose job it is to do things like run into burning buildings or apprehend murderers and rapists.
The private sector's inefficiency is enormous compared to the public sector--but all the inefficiency is at the top, with the top executives earning salaries that are ludicrously high compared to those they received 20-30 years ago, while regular working stiffs get the shaft--if they are lucky enough to still be employed, their paychecks have been shrinking. And because taxes on the rich have been dropping during the same period (instead of the 90% top tax rate of the 1950s, it's now 36%, with capital gains even lower, and due to offshore accounting tricks, the big players don't even pay that much in taxes) the same people making less money (the middle class) are expected to pick up the tab for the wealthy.
And if the private sector employee is lucky enough to have any retirement package, it is now a 401K instead of the older model of private-sector pensions. And while people screech about how public-sector pension funds like PERS lost 25% of their value in the 2008 market crash, people's 401Ks lost 50% or more of their value. But somehow, this more volatile and risky vehicle receives no criticism at all.
Almost 20 years in the medical field and the changes have been dramatic...
Way back when, I took a pay cut to go from Hourly to Salaried with benefits.
The benefits included: 401k matching, profit sharing, employee stock plan, bonus plan, decent vacation accrual, HMO Health Care, jury duty reimbursement and an education allowance.
ALL of these no longer exist... slowly, one by one, each benefit was eliminated while responsibilities and after hour calls have increased dramatically due to down-sizing and lay-offs.
I tested for many local Bay Area Law Enforcement Agencies in 82 and again in 90-91... Had several interviews with local police chiefs and one with the Sheriff... was told they are only hiring laterals or in rare instances, those that paid their own way through the academy and did well...
My "Mistake" was getting my education first and then applying... my friends went from Community College 2 year admin of justice programs directly into Law Enforcement... I did a double major and the entire market changed in the interim... new candidates were no longer being considered.... the academies had been closed due to budget constraints.
My city was under a consent decree and was sending teams of recruiters to all corners of the country seeking qualified individuals... 2 to 3 years later the departments had stopped all recruiting for the academy...
Generally, inefficiency in the private sector is not tolerated for long... the market share will go to companies that are efficient.
Google has been in the news a lot as one of the big success stories on many levels... they also pay one of the lowest taxation rates due to off-shore accounting... Al Gore, the former Vice President is on the Board of Directors...
Ya just gotta love the culture of envy. Must be second cousin to that of entitlement.
Envy? Envy? Really, did you just say that?
The public sector creates no wealth; it is funded by taxing those in the private sector, that place where wealth is created.
You live your life with my dollars in your pocket, feeding you, housing you and clothing you. The money that keeps you alive was created and earned by me.
You actually suggest that I envy you for being in possession of my money? How can I envy that which is mine? I envy you the same as I envy the man who stole my television. Both of you are in possession of my property, property that I never consented to give either of you.
The public sector is going to get a serious and well-deserved comeuppance, and I am going to laugh when the big government that enriched them is no longer able to continue doing so.
Claiming that I envy the man who lives offs my money is the clearest sign that our government has gone too far.
The public sector creates no wealth; it is funded by taxing those in the private sector, that place where wealth is created.
You live your life with my dollars in your pocket, feeding you, housing you and clothing you. The money that keeps you alive was created and earned by me.
You actually suggest that I envy you for being in possession of my money? How can I envy that which is mine? I envy you the same as I envy the man who stole my television. Both of you are in possession of my property, property that I never consented to give either of you.
The public sector is going to get a serious and well-deserved comeuppance, and I am going to laugh when the big government that enriched them is no longer able to continue doing so.
Claiming that I envy the man who lives offs my money is the clearest sign that our government has gone too far.
Y A W N ! Those in the public sector also pay taxes so by your reasoning, they're paying their own wages. As for your consent, who have you been voting for? What government-provided services have you used? More than you think!
Y A W N ! Those in the public sector also pay taxes so by your reasoning, they're paying their own wages. As for your consent, who have you been voting for? What government-provided services have you used? More than you think!
Try a little common sense!
Common sense, Indeed. Government employees are not truly taxed, as they just return a portion of their salary to the same people who gave it to them, making any tax on their wages nothing but an illusion.
You also ignored the inescapable economic fact that public sector employees do not create wealth. They live on wealth created by others.
And don't try to claim some moral authority for your monopolies. I'm forced to use certain services, being deprived of any choice or consent in using yours. I'd eliminate most or all of your jobs, departments, commissions and functions.
All in all, your response to my post was quite weak and left me in full possession of the field. Again, you brazenly think that I envy that which you took from me.
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