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Old 09-03-2012, 06:39 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 8,176,996 times
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Quote:
Correction: Not the Western Hemisphere, but most of the so called "rich" "developed" countries are broke. Many of the countries in Latin America (part of the Western Hemisphere) are actually doing better than the developed countries. The people in those countries don't expect their governments to provide them with cradle to grave economic security. They understand that function should be served by family and extended family. Interestingly enough, this is probably why many of their governments are becoming more financially stable than "rich" countries.
Not to jump too far off the track here, but, doing a little Latin America research on where Mitt Romney got his Bain start up capital is pretty interesting, there is a very curious relationship between certain Latin American families and his capital acquisition.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:40 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,488,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Correction: Not the Western Hemisphere, but most of the so called "rich" "developed" countries are broke. Many of the countries in Latin America (part of the Western Hemisphere) are actually doing better than the developed countries. The people in those countries don't expect their governments to provide them with cradle to grave economic security. They understand that function should be served by family and extended family. Interestingly enough, this is probably why many of their governments are becoming more financially stable than "rich" countries.
You mean they are directed by a feeling of Social Responsibility, not Socialism? When will CA (and the US) learn that?
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
it's called "hyperbole" (aka, intentional exaggeration)... something I'd figure most SoCal folks would already be very familiar with!
Yep CA politicians use it all the time. "The Budget is balanced".

OR maybe their voices just fail and we don't hear the words "on the backs of the middle class".
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 8,176,996 times
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Quote:
The people in those countries don't expect their governments to provide them with cradle to grave economic security. They understand that function should be served by family and extended family. Interestingly enough, this is probably why many of their governments are becoming more financially stable than "rich" countries.
Actually, they may not expect but they certainly hope. The stable nature of some of these have more to do with the failure of democracy than with anything else.
Quote:
You mean they are directed by a feeling of Social Responsibility, not Socialism? When will CA (and the US) learn that?
No. that idea is not accurate. CA and the US are also socialist to some degree, as are all modern countries.

I don't think you dislike that. We could go back to private Fire Departments, have your credit card handy.


Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Ecuador, Brazil, Nicaragua, Argentina, Peru, Guyana, Uruguay, Nicaragua, Paraguay, all lean socialist to one degree or another.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Declezville, CA
16,758 posts, read 35,697,230 times
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Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
We could go back to private Fire Departments, have your credit card handy.
Back to the days of "firemarks" on houses, as in proof of prepayment of fire dept fees. No firemark, no service. The fire dept will stick around to protect the exposures (if they're paid up) while your house burns.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:00 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,488,448 times
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Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Actually, they may not expect but they certainly hope. The stable nature of some of these have more to do with the failure of democracy than with anything else.
No. that idea is not accurate. CA and the US are also socialist to some degree, as are all modern countries.

I don't think you dislike that. We could go back to private Fire Departments, have your credit card handy.


Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Ecuador, Brazil, Nicaragua, Argentina, Peru, Guyana, Uruguay, Nicaragua, Paraguay, all lean socialist to one degree or another.
Hi,

Socialism as a guide works fine, as mandated it creates havoc one way or another. It actually reduces real Social Responsibility in individuals. Leaning Socialist is fine, but Socialism dominating, without freedom for Capitalism, is gonna lead to failure and tyranny.

Looking at other countries is fine for reference, but they aren't CA. All Countries can control their wealth and print money, etc. CA cannot, it can only take money. Imagine if CA took over all major industries in the State like Venezuela did?
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:10 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 8,176,996 times
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Quote:
Socialism as a guide works fine, as mandated it creates havoc one way or another. It actually reduces real Social Responsibility in individuals. Leaning Socialist is fine, but Socialism dominating, without freedom for Capitalism, is gonna lead to failure and tyranny.
First, you created a strawman and then attacked it. No one that I have ever heard of in advocating socialism wants to deny capitalism.

The fact of the matter is that all nations that out do the US in important categories, like health care, transportation, and yes, even industry are socialist. South American people like socialism because the imposed strictures of capitalism have resulted in nations of "10 millionaires and 100 million poor". The experiment in democracy and capitalism encouraged by the US has not led to better lives for the masses.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:29 PM
 
18,173 posts, read 12,488,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
First, you created a strawman and then attacked it. No one that I have ever heard of in advocating socialism wants to deny capitalism.

The fact of the matter is that all nations that out do the US in important categories, like health care, transportation, and yes, even industry are socialist. South American people like socialism because the imposed strictures of capitalism have resulted in nations of "10 millionaires and 100 million poor". The experiment in democracy and capitalism encouraged by the US has not led to better lives for the masses.
Hi,

No straw man, just an observation.

You did not advocate that, but many really do.

As to "better" that is open to individual opinion, just like CA VS Texas, etc. If the other Countries were so much better off, we would have no illegal immigration from them or even any immigration to speak of. What looks good at a distance isn't always what it is assumed to be.

Notice in even the Countries you list, the Rich stay rich and the middle class .... well they are not rich or ever likely to be in the vast majority of the cases. Should being rich be a goal? Nope, but being poor should not be one either.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:31 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,299 posts, read 12,853,099 times
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So ...... it's been a coupla years since the OP. Has California crashed and burned yet?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:03 AM
 
5,870 posts, read 11,495,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Correction: Not the Western Hemisphere, but most of the so called "rich" "developed" countries are broke. Many of the countries in Latin America (part of the Western Hemisphere) are actually doing better than the developed countries. The people in those countries don't expect their governments to provide them with cradle to grave economic security. They understand that function should be served by family and extended family. Interestingly enough, this is probably why many of their governments are becoming more financially stable than "rich" countries.
Yes, when you are used to being oppressed by military dictatorships, when you are used to having the light skinned upper 1% inherit all the wealth and land, when you are used to global fruit corporations taking over your land, no you don't expect much. I guess thats the world that you want. To strip people of dignity to the point, where they don't demand equal justice.

Europe went through their history where the masses didn't have a shot, they nearly destroyed each others nations first through the hands of their royalty, then through the fascists and nazis through vengeance after being punished after losing that first war. Then the continent was divided again by two opposing forces who knew better not to start a war, now that they had nuclear bombs. Now, after all that, the people of the continent get along, and have a high quality of life. The debt crisis is nothing compared to all of that.



Oh, and BTW, no Latin American countries have been worse than European countries when it comes to debt issues. Argentina?

Its just that tea party neocons experience some weird orgasm watching the underclass working 70 hours a week doing backbreaking labor in hopes that one day they can live the high life of the one percent.

Enough with all your stupid cowboy, git r done, pull ones self up by the boostraps rhetoric. Its a broken record. Get some new material. Or as Mitt Romney says, borrow some money from our parents to start a business.
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