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I don't believe this is the real reason. The real reason is the elite who run our country want 2 things: 1. The liberal elite wants political power because they know illegal immigrants or their children will vote for them, which gives them more power to expand the welfare state so they can accure even more power. 2. The conservative elite wants cheap labor.
I've agreed with the above for quite some time. By its inaction the government has given its blessing to illegals staying. What other explanations could there be for not enforcing the laws of our land? One political party wants future voters, the other wants cheap labor to exploit.
Nah, we should not educate them, they should continue in poverty, gangs, drugs, Thanks for your great idea.
Now, read this slowly; If people are educated, they get better jobs, they make more money, they pay more taxes, more taxes go to the state, the state gets its investment in education back, in spades.
Got it?
Or we do your way, why not? Gangs are a benefit to society? According to your thinking, Gang membership and criminal activities by the poor (which is what the poor often do to survive) are a better deal than education and good jobs.
You said we give them a free public education. I read your post correctly.
You seem to think that if they don't get a subsidized college education they will become gang members. There are between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants in the US. How many are gang members? Probably not many.
The illegal immigrants shouldn't be in California (or any other state). It is not the USA's responsibility to provide for and educate the illegal immigrants of other countries. For California specifically, and its overtaxed budget, it should first focus on educating its citizens. I did not say poor people shouldn't have some help. But it is ludicrous to think that an illegal immigrant should receive state benefits at the expense of legal citizens. Yes - that already occurs since resources are finite - and any funds invested in the education of illegal immigrants is funds that have not been made available for other programs needed by legal residents.
I'm not arguing that education isn't good. Of course it is. I'm arguing that it isn't California's responsibility to educate people who are in the country illegally at the expense of legal residents.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
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How many of you think illegals pay less taxes than you?
Thought so, to think that some how you are paying taxes and they are not, defies belief.
The United States Government guarantees each pupil a Free and Appropriate education, that you pay taxes and that makes it "not free" is stretching credibility. The fire depart puts out the fire in your house for free, the police respond to your 911 (and your speeding) for free.
And of course you pay taxes to support that, just like education, just like the illegals do. But the event is free for the consumer, whether fire, police or education.
Ya'll are so caught up in your fear of illegals that it appears logic crossed the border heading south.
How many of you think illegals pay less taxes than you?
Thought so, to think that some how you are paying taxes and they are not, defies belief.
The United States Government guarantees each pupil a Free and Appropriate education, that you pay taxes and that makes it "not free" is stretching credibility. The fire depart puts out the fire in your house for free, the police respond to your 911 (and your speeding) for free.
And of course you pay taxes to support that, just like education, just like the illegals do. But the event is free for the consumer, whether fire, police or education.
Ya'll are so caught up in your fear of illegals that it appears logic crossed the border heading south.
Me .. Yeah, this guy right over here thinks so ....
""However, if these illegal immigrants were granted amnesty and citizenship, as proposed by the Bush Administration and legislated in a recent Senate-passed immigration bill (S. 2611), they could cost taxpayers an additional half-trillion dollars. In total, all immigrants without a high school education could impose a net cost on U.S. taxpayers of around one trillion dollars or more. If the cost of educating the immigrants' children is included, that figure could reach two trillion dollars.[4]" "
In case the logic/basic math/common sense escapes you... Let me demonstrate ...
Low skill = Low wage = Low tax contribution...
Lots of kids = tax exemptions ...
= LOWER TAX contribution
So much so that someone else is paying to educate their dam kids
If you think some clown illegal immigrant who just crossed the border is paying more taxes than your average American w/ an education .... you are the one who needs their head examined....
Here are some more excerpts :
"The poverty and other problems associated with mass low-skill immigration would be of less concern if they could be expected to quickly vanish in the next generation. Unfortunately, the evidence indicates that this will not occur. For example, the low levels of education, high levels of poverty, and high levels of out-of-wedlock childbearing found among Hispanic immigrants since 1970 persist among native-born Hispanics in the U.S. to a considerable degree.[5]
These data indicate that the current influx of low-skill immigrants will raise poverty in the U.S. not merely at the present time, but for generations to come. Current low-skill immigrants will raise both the absolute number of poor persons and the poverty rate in the U.S. for the foreseeable future. The greater the inflow of low-skill immigrants, the greater the long-term increase in poverty will be. "
The problem w/ you bleeding heart liberals is you forget who is paying for all you Utopian ideas .. You lead people to believe you would give the shirt off your back to some illegal immigrant but give us all a break .. When it comes down to it, you will prioritize. Given how broke and destitute we are as a nation, we need to start doing that .... Just because the issue is swept under the carpet via mountains of debt that my dam kids and others will have to pay for in the future + interest doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So give us all a break from your failed logic, common sense, and lack of basic math. It seems you lost a bit of comprehension skills due to the lack of blood flow to your brain from that bleeding heart of yours.
It amazes me the level to which your average idiot in this country feels they are thinking logically/intelligently. The level of prosperity that was handed out via this b.s economy over the last decade has given even the biggest morons a sense of confidence in their stupidity. At least a poor person gets that they are doing something wrong... Give idiots money in this country and they suddenly think they are Einsteins because they have some humanity, money, and watched some liberal foolishness on T.V.
The poverty and other problems associated with mass low-skill immigration would be of less concern if they could be expected to quickly vanish in the next generation. Unfortunately, the evidence indicates that this will not occur. For example, the low levels of education, high levels of poverty, and high levels of out-of-wedlock childbearing found among Hispanic immigrants since 1970 persist among native-born Hispanics in the U.S. to a considerable degree.[5]
These data indicate that the current influx of low-skill immigrants will raise poverty in the U.S. not merely at the present time, but for generations to come. Current low-skill immigrants will raise both the absolute number of poor persons and the poverty rate in the U.S. for the foreseeable future. The greater the inflow of low-skill immigrants, the greater the long-term increase in poverty will be. "
I don't know who wrote it but I think it makes a good point, even if the math would be difficult to verify and some of it may be a stretch. But the bottom line is spot-on!
Juan Legal vs. Jose Illegal
Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically productive
for the State of California .
You have 2 families..."Juan Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have 2 parents, 2 children and live in California .
"Juan Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number,
and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.
"Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number,
and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Juan Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year
Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Juan Legal now has $31,231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00
Juan Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage
$1000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Juan Legal now has $19,231.00
Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Juan Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare
Juan Legal pays for food, $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Juan Legal now has $ 7,231.00
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Juan Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Juan Legal is now in the hole, Minus (-) $4,769.00
Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays rent, $500.00 per month, $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00
Juan Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Juan Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school.
Juan Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch.
Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program.
Juan Legal's children go home.
Juan Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services,
but Juan paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Jose Illegal-Immigrant gets all the benefits of being a US citizen but doesn’t pay any of the costs. He did not obey the laws and paid criminals to smuggle himself and his family across the line, enriching the same coyotes and drug criminals who prey on his community. By his actions he is a parasite on the United States and damages other Americans who are legal residents and citizens. Worst of all to self-reliant Americans of all sorts, he is not self-reliant. He and his family are free-loaders. Everyone else has to pull their weight because he declines to.
There are two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal." Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted. Actually, a lot of Illegals do the same. They use a fake SS number.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table." Actually, a lot of U.S. Citizens do the same. Employers treat them as "sub contractors" to avoid paying matching taxes and providing WC and UE taxes.
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. This is absurd. A single man with that income, with no dependent children will pay less than 20% in taxes, including Social Security and Medicare. This comes to $10,400 leaving Joe Legal with $41,600. Just remember that illegals who used a fake Social Security number are doing the same thing - they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00. Again, under our current immigration laws, U.S. employers have hired millions of "Jose Illegals" LEGALLY. Their taxes are withheld just like Joe Legal's taxes are withheld.
Joe Legal Pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $34,400.00. Remember he is paying less than 20% in taxes. Millions of illegals are doing the same thing with fake social security cards.
Joe Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. This is an overstatement. Assuming you are talking about illegals who are not insured (there are millions working for employers with benefits) they are in the same boat as the legal uninsured. Both groups show up at the emergency room for the medical treatment because they cannot be turned away.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00. Actually, Joe Legal now has $28,400.00. This also implies that Illegals receive welfare and food stamps. This is not true - both welfare and food stamp programs require a VERIFIED valid Social Security ID.
Joe Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Again, no one gets foods stamps without a verified SS number! Jose Illegal now has $25,200 after food expenses.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1200.00 per month, or $14,400 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00. Actually, Joe Legal has $14,000.00. Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal rent subsidy. Again, not true because of the SS ID requirement.
Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month for rent, or $6000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Why would one think the average Jose Illegal pays any less rent than the average "Joe Legal"? This is a deliberate misrepresentation. Jose Illegal's now has $10,800 after rent expense.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 per year for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00. Actually, he now has $11,600.00. Legal status is no guarantee that someone will buy insurance - again the deck is being stacked.
Jose Illegal says "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00. If Illegals were allowed to renew their drivers licenses, they could buy liability insurance on the cars and trucks that we sold them. Now, we refuse to renew their drivers licenses?!? So, who is it that is keeping Jose Illegal from buying insurance?!?
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc. Actually, it is $11,600.00. Yes, he sure does have to make it stretch. Good thing he live in a country that offers more opportunities to people regardless of class or national origin. Everything he buys contributes to our U.S. economy. Everyone should want Joe Legal to succeed. When he succeeds, America succeeds!
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 (the correct number is $10,800) stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month. Jose Illegal can do whatever he wants with his money. But, he also buys goods and services in the United States of America. His money counts the same as Joe Legal.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Also known as getting ahead!
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family. This is a ridiculous characterization. More likely, he is standing on a corner waiting for any job at $10.00 per hour, hoping that the guy that picks him up will pay him.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home. They bot get a free lunch and they both study English.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay. What makes you think "Jose" did not pay for these services? In Texas, we pay our police and fire services through local sales and property taxes. If Jose had lived in Texas he would have paid plenty of those. Now consider this: If Jose had lived in Arizona, how likely is it that Jose Illegal will call the police when he is the victim of a crime? He is afraid to report the crime as he knows he is subject to deportation!
Do you get it now?!? Yes, it's obvious that you know very little about Illegal Immigration!
If you vote for or support any politician who supports immigration reform - You are part of the problem! No, you are the problem! Keep it up, and you will drive more legal immigrants to vote for the likes of Obama Socialism! If you can read get you head out of ... and think! God gave you a brain. Use it and support Sensible Immigration Reform. America deserves a sensible immigration policy. Secure our borders and demand a positive ID of every NON-CITIZEN in the country. Deport those with violent criminal records but issue work permits to those we allow to stay. Allow no short cuts to citizenship, except for military service. Establish a penalty tax for non-citizens and their employers as an incentive to hire citizens first!
you make a good point curmudgeon, but you fail to account for the macro economic impact of companies paying $25 vs. $15 an hour. That's an 67% increase in costs to the employer which will in turn be passed on to the consumer. there's two sides to this coin: 1. expenses go up across the board for everyone and 2. the government generates more in both income and sales taxes. i'm sure the government would love more taxes, but consumers are the noisiest lobby group in the land.
How many of you think illegals pay less taxes than you?
Thought so, to think that some how you are paying taxes and they are not, defies belief.
I provide my own, valid social security number when I obtain employment and I am taxed. How does that work for illegals?
**This is on the topic of taxes covering education costs.
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.. When it comes down to it, you will prioritize. Given how broke and destitute we are as a nation, we need to start doing that .... Just because the issue is swept under the carpet via mountains of debt that my dam kids and others will have to pay for in the future + interest doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So give us all a break from your failed logic, common sense, and lack of basic math. It seems you lost a bit of comprehension skills due to the lack of blood flow to your brain from that bleeding heart of yours.
