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Old 08-18-2007, 06:16 AM
 
112 posts, read 427,001 times
Reputation: 63

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Why doesnt our idiotic government simply PERMANTANTLY REMOVE BENEFITS TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CAUGHT USING, SELLING, AND POCESSING NARCOTICS. I DONT MIND HELPING SOMEONE WHO IS TEMPORARLY DOWN ON THEIR LUCK, I THINK WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE, BUT SINCE WHEN ARE WE OBLIGATED TO SUPPORT A DIRTBAGS DRUG HABBIT AND CRIME ENTERPRISE??

 
Old 08-20-2007, 08:41 PM
 
1 posts, read 6,419 times
Reputation: 17
Angry Wow that seems so unfair!!!!

How I see it is this, you only know as much as you read unless you have been on the program you shouldnt knock people who are. Some people are very hard working and just cant get enough together to pay the high priced amounts of rent or even scrape together enough money to buy the home of their dreams. Yes I know there are people out there that use the program to their advantage, but still there are others who are only trying to make their lives worth living.

I started out as a young single mom with three kids by the time I was 26. I am 30 now and have had ex-husbands who have made it difficult for me to get ahead in life. When I first heard about section 8 I told myself that I would never get on a program like that. The thing is trying to provide a roof over my childrens head on just 9 dollars an hour wasnt cutting it. So I broke down and got on the program. I now am able to provide a safe and reliable home for my children. I am also back in college working towards my degree which will in turn get me off of the program for good. I did nothing wrong and never asked anyone for any help, but with Californias continuous rising of rental properties I had no choice or my children and I would be on the street. I am not an ignorant person, as a matter of fact I have a 3.5 grade point average and I am working towards a career in biotechnology. This does not make me a bad person just someone who couldnt make it without help.

No one should make a judgment about something unless they have experienced it themselves. You cant fault an entire program for the mistakes others have made. Just because you some bad apples doesnt mean that the rest of them are not any good for the picking.

Everyone deserves a shot at happiness and some of us have to work harder than others to make our dreams come true.
 
Old 08-21-2007, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Central Valley, CA
15 posts, read 92,133 times
Reputation: 31
"I don't receive welfare" ...How sure are you about that? Title subsidized monies from the government anyway you want.......But welfare is welfare


Main Entry: 1wel·fare
Pronunciation: 'wel-"fer
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from the phrase wel faren to fare well
1 : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity <must look out for your own welfare>
2 a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed

"Who gave you this awesome responsibility of judging each and every persons character?" I'm not judging your character...I'm simply not buying your justifications for being on welfare. Don't forget your the one who made decisions in your life that put you where you are. Decision making is a reflection of your character...........

"If you feel as if you have the answers for people on Setion 8, then your talents are being wasted. HELP PEOPLE. But I can already see that's not one of your strong suits." I do have the answers...graduate high school, don't have children you can't support, work full time, pursue a college education, don't do drugs, and don't associate with people who don't do the above. Pretty simple huh? Now think about your current situation and apply it to the above...how many of those did you not adhere to? Also, I can't help people they have to help themselves...I can give them guidance (like I did for you above) and then they have to implement the self help method......AS I CAN SEE NICTASTIC HELPING YOURSELF AND MAKING GOOD DECISIONS ARE NOT YOUR STRONG SUITS!

"I guarantee you could live next door to me and never know that I was there with a housing voucher." Yes I would. You would be the one home all the time while my neighbors and I are at work. Remember you choose to work convienent hours to spend time with your children. I would know the minute I saw you and your children move in and found out where you work...Would I care....Not a single bit unless there was trouble and it centered around your house.

"Your obvious disdain for the people you CHOSE to "PROTECT AND SERVE" I find absurd" Disdain? Disdain because I don't let people pull the wool over my eyes? Disdain because I don't buy the "poor me, poor me, I'm a victim of my own circumstances"? I LOVE my job, I TRUELY care for the citizens I serve, however, I will never let anyone ever tell me that a life time of bad decision making by an individual should be a punishment bore by the masses!!!!!
 
Old 08-21-2007, 03:22 PM
 
6 posts, read 36,647 times
Reputation: 15
"I guarantee you could live next door to me and never know that I was there with a housing voucher." Yes I would. You would be the one home all the time while my neighbors and I are at work. Remember you choose to work convienent hours to spend time with your children. I would know the minute I saw you and your children move in and found out where you work...Would I care....Not a single bit unless there was trouble and it centered around your house.

The ignorance you have is truly astounding. Many people could move in next door to you and never go to work. They could have resources of their own that permitts them a lifestyle of leisure. (but if your at work all day how would you know they are home?) Those resources might also enable them to work somewhere not for the money, but for the satisfaction of helping others.

"Who gave you this awesome responsibility of judging each and every persons character?" I'm not judging your character...I'm simply not buying your justifications for being on welfare. Don't forget your the one who made decisions in your life that put you where you are. Decision making is a reflection of your character...........

I gave no justifications for being on housing assistance. I pointed out the various reason why many people are, that did not included Fraud. Which is what a lot of the posters on this site were tying it in with.

"If you feel as if you have the answers for people on Setion 8, then your talents are being wasted. HELP PEOPLE. But I can already see that's not one of your strong suits." I do have the answers...graduate high school, don't have children you can't support, work full time, pursue a college education, don't do drugs, and don't associate with people who don't do the above. Pretty simple huh? Now think about your current situation and apply it to the above...how many of those did you not adhere to? Also, I can't help people they have to help themselves...I can give them guidance (like I did for you above) and then they have to implement the self help method......AS I CAN SEE NICTASTIC HELPING YOURSELF AND MAKING GOOD DECISIONS ARE NOT YOUR STRONG SUITS

Again, I see you still have the burden of assumption. So all people on rental assistance did not graduate high school, do drugs, and don't pursue higher education? They all sit around with eachother in there paid for by you homes, getting high and never making anything of themselves? Sorry to disappoint but it's just not so. Plenty and I do mean plenty of the people on Section 8 work fulltime jobs, go to school, and abide the law, and please point out in any of my post where I said I didn't. I'll wait..............What I said was that I didn't work two jobs....That's my fault for assuming you could count. SO I'LL EXPLAIN, IT MEANS I DO HAVE ONE..

"Your obvious disdain for the people you CHOSE to "PROTECT AND SERVE" I find absurd" Disdain? Disdain because I don't let people pull the wool over my eyes? Disdain because I don't buy the "poor me, poor me, I'm a victim of my own circumstances"? I LOVE my job, I TRUELY care for the citizens I serve, however, I will never let anyone ever tell me that a life time of bad decision making by an individual should be a punishment bore by the masses!!!!!

I see you have pulled you soapbox out to stand on. I never said a thing about poor me. I never once solicited sympathy/empathy about my situation. What I hoped was to enlighten. So peolpe like YOU who judge harshly without KNOWLEDGE or FACTS could gain some INSIGHT, but from these exchanges I now know that is futile. I will agree to disagree, for you know not my life and I know not yours. I will walk away with the lesson that you gave. "I don't receive welfare" ...How sure are you about that? Title subsidized monies from the government anyway you want.......But welfare is welfare


Main Entry: 1wel·fare
Pronunciation: 'wel-"fer
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from the phrase wel faren to fare well
1 : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity <must look out for your own welfare>
2 a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed.

I READ THE DEFINITION. DID YOU?
 
Old 08-21-2007, 07:33 PM
 
12 posts, read 67,590 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavenslyric View Post
How I see it is this, you only know as much as you read unless you have been on the program you shouldnt knock people who are. Some people are very hard working and just cant get enough together to pay the high priced amounts of rent or even scrape together enough money to buy the home of their dreams. Yes I know there are people out there that use the program to their advantage, but still there are others who are only trying to make their lives worth living.

I started out as a young single mom with three kids by the time I was 26. I am 30 now and have had ex-husbands who have made it difficult for me to get ahead in life. When I first heard about section 8 I told myself that I would never get on a program like that. The thing is trying to provide a roof over my childrens head on just 9 dollars an hour wasnt cutting it. So I broke down and got on the program. I now am able to provide a safe and reliable home for my children. I am also back in college working towards my degree which will in turn get me off of the program for good. I did nothing wrong and never asked anyone for any help, but with Californias continuous rising of rental properties I had no choice or my children and I would be on the street. I am not an ignorant person, as a matter of fact I have a 3.5 grade point average and I am working towards a career in biotechnology. This does not make me a bad person just someone who couldnt make it without help.

No one should make a judgment about something unless they have experienced it themselves. You cant fault an entire program for the mistakes others have made. Just because you some bad apples doesnt mean that the rest of them are not any good for the picking.

Everyone deserves a shot at happiness and some of us have to work harder than others to make our dreams come true.
I admire you for doing what needs to be done to make a better life for you and your family. I think that is wonderful! You are doing something to improve your situation, unlike the other woman who has tried to justify her situation by stating that she pays taxes just like the rest of us. I'm sure she also gets an earned income credit when she files her taxes and gets all of the money she paid in taxes right back. I hope that she takes a lesson from you and does something to help herself and her family by pursuing a college degree or moving somewhere were she can afford to live without housing assistance. Unfortunately she won't acknowledge those suggestions! Good luck to you and your family, you will see the benefits of your actions in the future. Your children will truly admire you for it!
 
Old 08-22-2007, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Central Valley, CA
15 posts, read 92,133 times
Reputation: 31
"The ignorance you have is truly astounding. Many people could move in next door to you and never go to work. They could have resources of their own that permitts them a lifestyle of leisure. (but if your at work all day how would you know they are home?) Those resources might also enable them to work somewhere not for the money, but for the satisfaction of helping others" Many people? I thought we were talking about YOU.....You don'tpossess those resources you refer to right? However, you use someone else and their completely seperate and polar opposite financial situation then your own to justify your arguement! Where does the ignorance exist?

"Again, I see you still have the burden of assumption. So all people on rental assistance did not graduate high school, do drugs, and don't pursue higher education? They all sit around with eachother in there paid for by you homes, getting high and never making anything of themselves? Sorry to disappoint but it's just not so. Plenty and I do mean plenty of the people on Section 8 work fulltime jobs, go to school, and abide the law, and please point out in any of my post where I said I didn't. I'll wait..............What I said was that I didn't work two jobs....That's my fault for assuming you could count. SO I'LL EXPLAIN, IT MEANS I DO HAVE ONE.." Never said "ALL" people...speaking of a burden of assumption...I can count too, i.e. My income subtracted from my cost of living equals a positive number......That translate into a contributor to society, not a subtractor........

I'll be honest, I have no idea what you meant about your rebuttal for the welfare definition....You have a need, the government meets your need through a program which consists of a monetary contribution......

I'll agree to disagree.........And I would still put my life on the line to help you if the need arose without question or delay...........
 
Old 08-22-2007, 02:22 PM
 
6 posts, read 36,647 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by LP41 View Post
"The ignorance you have is truly astounding. Many people could move in next door to you and never go to work. They could have resources of their own that permitts them a lifestyle of leisure. (but if your at work all day how would you know they are home?) Those resources might also enable them to work somewhere not for the money, but for the satisfaction of helping others" Many people? I thought we were talking about YOU.....You don'tpossess those resources you refer to right? However, you use someone else and their completely seperate and polar opposite financial situation then your own to justify your arguement! Where does the ignorance exist?

"Again, I see you still have the burden of assumption. So all people on rental assistance did not graduate high school, do drugs, and don't pursue higher education? They all sit around with eachother in there paid for by you homes, getting high and never making anything of themselves? Sorry to disappoint but it's just not so. Plenty and I do mean plenty of the people on Section 8 work fulltime jobs, go to school, and abide the law, and please point out in any of my post where I said I didn't. I'll wait..............What I said was that I didn't work two jobs....That's my fault for assuming you could count. SO I'LL EXPLAIN, IT MEANS I DO HAVE ONE.." Never said "ALL" people...speaking of a burden of assumption...I can count too, i.e. My income subtracted from my cost of living equals a positive number......That translate into a contributor to society, not a subtractor........

I'll be honest, I have no idea what you meant about your rebuttal for the welfare definition....You have a need, the government meets your need through a program which consists of a monetary contribution......

I'll agree to disagree.........And I would still put my life on the line to help you if the need arose without question or delay...........
My rebuttal meant just that. The program is for people who are in need. As for you willing to protect and serve for me.... I thank you.... It has been a most interesting debate.
 
Old 08-22-2007, 03:54 PM
 
3 posts, read 13,189 times
Reputation: 11
It's really sad that the government assistance pays better than huge corporations that own most of the low paying jobs (McDonalds). I've always been a worker at these types of places and the best paying job I've ever had was a private housekeeping company $10/hr. But then I felt like I was a looser. I finally went on food stamps and THAT system makes it IMPOSSIBLE to have a low paying job and stay on assistance. Like health insurance, CMSP I'm on now unless I make more than $1200 a month. Then how am I supposed to afford even an $80 doc visit much less insurance. Food stamps is $800 limit on income (GROSS!) and then all I got was $100/m 4 1 person. So they force people to stay unemployed to be eligable for these services. Then the obvious way to make any more $ is through untaxable sources, (drug dealing, stolen goods, prostitution.) There needs to be more services for middle america!!! Like I make $1800 a month now and still am short like so many others for any luxuries unless I go into debt with credit. As soon as your credit is bad, your houseing options are limited to SECTION 8!!!!! Then might as well loose your job and have a few kids so you can qualify for that.
 
Old 08-25-2007, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Minnesota, USA
1,207 posts, read 2,418,526 times
Reputation: 1923
Lightbulb One Label Does Not Define All


This is a difficult topic for me to comment on & as I have read all the other comments I found myself mostly frustrated & dismayed - but also, on some levels, knowing exactly what the commenter was referring to.

I am 39 years old & up until not that long ago I was working as a Human Resources Professional earning a healthy salary. I am a divorced mother of one son (who is now 19 years old). I come from a poor family of 10 children with parents who were hard-working - but always just barely making it. I was always taught that anything worth having is worth working for.

I made serious errors in judgment early on - married early & found myself being another statistic. I was one of those people who received every possible government assistance available - including Section 8. I had little earning power, but worked the majority of the time I received assistance. I divorced after 4 years & raised my, then 3 1/2 year old son, on my own (still on government assistance).

It took me a long time - too long in my estimation - to pull it together completely. But, when I did, no one had to take me off of assistance. While still qualifying for all the help - I took myself off & felt liberated doing so. I went from, at one point, living on $437 per month to within two years of getting off of all assistance earning $45,000 per year - legitimately.

I believe in working for what you want out of life - I've lived what my values are. To look at me you'd never know I have a single issue that would make me unable to care for myself. Looks can be deceiving - all is not always what it seems.

A couple years ago I had two nearly fatal car accidents within one year & life has not been the same since. For now at least, I am no longer able to work & I receive Social Security Disability (which differs from SSI - which is the equivalent to welfare but for the disabled). I only recently was able to "jump" the waiting list & receive a Section 8 voucher because of my disabilities. Prior to that I was paying $750 per month rent while living on a total of $885. I happen to have had an income that rendered me disqualified for any assistance from "welfare" programs of any sort & had a spend-down on my medical insurance of $360 per month (yeah, add it up - after rent there was no room to pay the additional $360 each month to receive medical care). Section 8 has been a life-saving blessing & a curse all at the same time.

I had been living in an average apartment in a neighborhood anyone would love & now I live in a complex that, at first glance seems quite nice, but to live here is to realize all the stereotypes you all have mentioned above. I understand the concerns many of you have - because I am living them. I worked hard for everything I attained & certainly do not like the reality of living in these conditions.

The problem is that the things all of you have spoken of ARE stereotypes. Of course many of the things you've mentioned are real on some level - but they are not factual across the board. I could not find housing anywhere but a place like this. I actually put out want ads for housing to explain my situation & circumstances in the hopes that a decent owner/landlord would be willing to rent to me.

Due to health reasons I am desperately trying to move to the LA area from Minneapolis, MN in May 2008 - as I have done extensive research into the matter it doesn't seem like a very realistic possibility. In every stereotype there is almost always a grain of truth. The problem is that "we" take that grain of truth & stretch it into a big giant monster that we call "those Section 8 people". So many of us are simply YOU - YOU, given the wrong set of circumstances or fate gone awry.

Contrary to what many of you seem to believe - all of us on Section 8 do not have cable, satellite, cell phones, or the like. Until recently, I didn't have anything but a dial tone on my phone - none of the features including "touch tone" that we all have grown accustomed to as "normal". I've been fortunate to have neighbors who allow me to piggyback on their wireless internet most of the time. I have a computer that I had from prior to being on assistance. I do not own a car - every asset I did have was taken as part of my bankruptcy settlement (after about 200,000 dollars in medical bills that insurance was arguing over who would pay it - while I required immediate surgery).

Make no mistake about one thing - I don't play the victim, nor do I have much tolerance for such an attitude. I created the circumstances that plunged me into poverty to begin with years ago & I made my own way out of those circumstances into a beautiful life (Okay, so I'll have to give God credit for the excellent guidance). Not sure how much I had control over the accidents that two other people caused - but I have all the power in the world to deal healthfully with the circumstances that followed them. I work hard attempting to create a new kind of productive life & accept fully that this is my reality to deal with.

Attitude is everything. I don't expect, nor do I want anyone to hand me anything. But, at this point in my journey, I do need help. I simply do.

Section 8 is set up so that we are not paying more than 40% (although 30% is the ideal) of our income to rent. I've read here ridiculously large rent amounts mentioned that Section 8 allows - it isn't true. The rent amounts do get higher with the larger bedroom sizes - but that only stands to reason because those units are fewer & farther between & there is greater wear & tear on units with more people in them.

While Section 8 only allows 2 people per sleeping space - they consider the living room a sleeping space too. Therefore a two bedroom may house 6 people according to their guidelines. Section 8 also does criminal background checks on all their tenants & has a zero tolerance policy for criminal behaviour. If these things are going on in your areas - you need to take that up with your landlord - he/she is not doing his/her due diligence to assurance a lovely community for all of you.

Statistically, the majority of people who enter the "welfare' system will be off within less than a year & the majority are also caucasian. The majority of the "welfare" budget also goes to the elderly & disabled for their healthcare.

Life may seem awfully rosy for me as you are looking in from the outside. I've been down & I've been out. I've soared to some pretty spectacular heights. I've made excuses. I've owned up to my life's choices. I've fallen & I've gotten back up again. I've taken & I've given so much more. I've been about as poor as we get in this country & managed to work my butt off to create a beautiful successful life for myself & my son - now, I struggle again. But I'll tell you plainly - I'd give this role up in half a heartbeat to be able to be out there being productive & living my life's dreams to their fullest again. There is nothing like the feeling of contributing to the greater good... working to earn your own way... coming home after a long day & knowing your life made a difference. If any of you would like to give that up for "this" - let's talk.

Section 8 is a wonderful blessing that I am very grateful for - but it is preconceived notions of people just like many of you that feels a whole lot like being kicked while I'm already down. I don't ask for, nor do I want pity. I simply want a fair chance to make my way in life just as you do. It just may be that I will need the assistance of Section 8 for the rest of my life (God forbid) - but, I don't think that negates my right to pursue a better standard of living - nor your obligation as fellow human beings to make a determination about me based upon who & what I present to you - not some stereotype or image in your mind. It just may be that one small helping hand (like considering me or others like me to live in your neighborhoods) is all I need to put that next foot forward into a new beginning of healthfulness & productivity.

Peace & Blessings to You All...

(my apologies if this is jumbled a bit - one of the gifts of the car accidents was a brain injury)

----------

Quote:
Far away there in the sunshine are my highest aspirations. I may not reach them, but I can look up and see their beauty, believe in them, and try to follow where they lead.
 
Old 08-25-2007, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Minnesota, USA
1,207 posts, read 2,418,526 times
Reputation: 1923
As I have stated previously - I am one of those who doesn't appear disabled in any way. When I had a vehicle, I had a handicap permit. I have a Service Dog who I need to bring with me sometimes & not others.

I am constantly barraged with questions & comments that are akin to personal attacks by folks who feel like it is their right to ask my full medical history or berate me because they simply cannot understand why I'd need the dog or the handicap permit.

If I didn't have anxiety issues before going out of my house - the reaction of others would certainly insight one!
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