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Here's some unsolicited advice for you: walk away. There is absolutely no point in wasting your effort trying to hold a meaningful conversation with someone who is close-minded.
I appreciate the advice, but I understand exactly what you are saying and what Im doing. Im not so much having a conversation with him, as I am posting a more rational position. Its just entertainment for him I know, and it puts not only those who disagree with him in awkward positions, but for me......I love California and in general I dont buy the doomsday position either. I think the state will pull out of it, but I do think the days of California leading the nation in most economic areas may be over. And right now, theres is only little comparison to how Texas and California are performing.
..and is no longer a member; at least until he reincarnates as someone else.
Ditto.
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I appreciate the advice, but I understand exactly what you are saying and what Im doing. Im not so much having a conversation with him, as I am posting a more rational position. Its just entertainment for him I know, and it puts not only those who disagree with him in awkward positions, but for me......I love California and in general I dont buy the doomsday position either. I think the state will pull out of it, but I do think the days of California leading the nation in most economic areas may be over. And right now, theres is only little comparison to how Texas and California are performing.
I, for one, appreciate any post that is the product of rational thinking -- whether or not it clashes with my own opinion.
It's the bigotry and the endless partisan rant that I don't care for.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,682,084 times
Reputation: 2622
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Also your example of what the states take is way off. Add sales tax, property tax, state income tax, use fees and its not that close.
Argue with the Tax foundation, not me. Look, we pay around $600,000 in property tax alone. If anyone would think we are over taxed it would be me. But, what we do cannot be done to the same profitability in any other state, we could not make as much money in any other state, that includes the taxes we pay.
You see, those who whine, are just whiners, if they don't have this to whine about, they have that to whine about, if you take that away from them, they will just come up with something else.
It has more to do with how one views oneself in the world than with any externals.
I mentioned elsewhere that I spent close to 40 years in a work environment where whining or complaining was not allowed, simply, not allowed, I find it a continual source of annoyance that the rest of the world seems to be full of complainers, get over it, in 50 or 100 years you will be as dead as a doorknob. Get out side, do something, quit bitching.
Argue with the Tax foundation, not me. Look, we pay around $600,000 in property tax alone. If anyone would think we are over taxed it would be me. But, what we do cannot be done to the same profitability in any other state, we could not make as much money in any other state, that includes the taxes we pay.
You see, those who whine, are just whiners, if they don't have this to whine about, they have that to whine about, if you take that away from them, they will just come up with something else.
It has more to do with how one views oneself in the world than with any externals.
I mentioned elsewhere that I spent close to 40 years in a work environment where whining or complaining was not allowed, simply, not allowed, I find it a continual source of annoyance that the rest of the world seems to be full of complainers, get over it, in 50 or 100 years you will be as dead as a doorknob. Get out side, do something, quit bitching.
Obviously you speak from the elite position where you dont have to be concerned with how much tax you pay and what the cost of living is or what the cost of business is. For the rest of us, we are concerned about it, but it doesnt stop most of us from enjoying ourselves and where we live.
Hogwash,]Many of those "services", should never have been services.
Yep, the only services that should be services are the ones you like, right?
. There will be less services, there will be less actual employees, because they have to pay the ones that retired with ridiculous pensions.
Yes, you are right they are ridiculous pensions, how can anyone live on less than $20,000 a year.
I repeat this constantly but the non thinkers are also non hearers, the average retired state worker pension is less than $20,000 a year. Heck that is as bad as Nevada, a truly pathetic state for employee support. I don't know how anyone gets to adulthood without knowing this, but if a work gets a pension it is because they have had payments for that pension deducted from their gross pay, every paycheck as long a they work, like, duh.
we be gettin our taxes and texas confused?
In case anyone is interested the State of Texas will take 8.4% of your money, the State of California, 10.5% a 1.9 % difference.
I know it's a waste of time... but...
California’s public pension and retiree health and dental care expenditures have quintupled since fiscal year 1998-99, from about $1 billion to $5 billion this year. Retirement spending is expected to triple again - to $15 billion - within the next decade.
Since 1998, California’s state workforce has grown by 31 percent and taxpayers now pay for more than 356,000 state workers.
Since 2008, California has added over 13,000 employees to the state payroll during this recession.
California taxpayers are paying pensions that exceed $100,000 a year to over 12,000 former state and local government workers, including more than 9,000 state and local employees covered by the California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS) and over 3,000 former school administrators or teachers covered under the California State Teachers’ Retirement System (CalSTRS).
In the 1960s, just one out of every 20 California state workers received “public safety” pensions. Now, one out of three state workers receives the lavish public safety benefits originally intended for the firefighters and police officers who put themselves in harm’s way.
California taxpayers pay 85 percent of the health care premiums for most active state workers, 100 percent of the health care costs for most state retirees and 90 percent of health care costs for their families.
CalPERS reported a loss of $56.2 billion for the fiscal year that ended June 30, 2009. CalSTRS posted a loss of $43.4 billion in 2009. California taxpayers are on the hook for funding shortfalls not made up by pension fund performance or employee contributions, so taxpayers will be paying more to make up for these pension investment losses.
The public pension benefit increases passed in 1999 via SB 400, which offered retroactive benefit increases to government workers, were supposed to cost $650 million in 2010. That figure was based on CalPERS’s assessment of its “superior return on system assets.” The actual costs of SB 400 to taxpayers: $3.1 billion this fiscal year and $3.5 billion next year. SB 400 passed by a 70-7 margin in the Assembly, and unanimously (39-0) in the Senate.
California is the only state in the nation that uses just one year – an employee’s final year salary – to determine their long-term pension benefits. Most states use three- or five-year periods to determine pension benefits, making their systems less susceptible to pension spiking.
SB 2465, which implemented the one-year final salary rule in 1990, has cost taxpayers more than $100 million a year. It was supposed to cost “only” $63 million per year.
Study: California Public Pensions Underfunded by Over $500B
California's three major public pension funds are underfunded by more than half a trillion dollars, according to a report released Monday, the San Jose Mercury News reports.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) commissioned the study, which was prepared by graduate students at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research (Theriault, San Jose Mercury News, 4/5).
The study examined:
The California Public Employees' Retirement System;
The California State Teachers' Retirement System; and
The University of California's retirement system (Walters, "Capitol Alert," Sacramento Bee, 4/5).
The three systems serve about 2.6 million retirees (Bussewitz, AP/Ventura County Star, 4/5).
Report Details
The Stanford report estimates that California's shortfall for government pensions and health care benefits is about $535 billion (Anderson, Contra Costa Times, 4/5).
Researchers tallied CalPERS' unfunded liabilities at $239.7 billion and CalSTRS' liabilities at $156.7 billion.
The new figures are significantly higher than previous estimates from the pension funds. In July 2008, CalPERS estimated its unfunded liabilities at $38.6 billion and CalSTRS estimated its liabilities at $16.2 billion (AP/Ventura County Star, 4/5).
Pension Liabilities Could Lead To Health Cuts, Other Changes
The Stanford report suggests that California would need to put $360 billion into its pension and health benefit systems immediately to have an 80% chance of meeting 80% of the obligations within 16 years (Contra Costa Times, 4/5).
Schwarzenegger in a statement (http://gov.ca.gov/press-release/14745/ - broken link) said the study "reinforces the immediate need to address our staggering pension debt." He added, "The consequences are clear: increasingly large portions of state funding for programs Californians hold dear such as schools, parks and health care will be diverted to pay for this debt."
The governor previously has proposed tightening eligibility requirements for retiree health care benefits and other changes to the pension system (AP/Ventura County Star, 4/5).
The new report echoes some of Schwarzenegger's proposals and calls for lawmakers to:
Reduce benefits for new public employees;
Raise annual pension contributions; and
Shift workers into a partial 401k benefit plan (San Jose Mercury News, 4/5).
Duh, the ratios argue with your entire point, the difference is, I ain't whining, you is.
It doesnt matter what the ratios are, youve been on the farm to long. Put your company trousers on and use some proper english so we can tell just what you are trying to say. Are you a trust fund baby, who worked the fire brigade to "make a difference" while the family fortune was securely run by rest of the family?
Your 'facts' are not very clear, because they are skewed for you own purposes. Any, average of $20k would include all low level employees that would skew the numbers drastically. Only 6% of corporations in the US offer any type of pension plan remotely similar to what the state of California does. Most people have to plan and prepare for their retirement. Did you read the article? And the million others that are out there.....
Also your example of what the states take is way off. Add sales tax, property tax, state income tax, use fees and its not that close.
He ("high" and "lite") has a personal agenda. I wonder what he takes to get high. I know what makes him "lite."
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Originally Posted by odannyboi
californio.. is Texas and republicans a form of Viagra for you? It seems you get a hard-on just talking about the subjects.
I'm willing to bet that 75% of your 7500 posts (seriously.. do you have a job or hobbies?) are related to red state stereotypes and include this annoying smilie---->.
Your blind hatred on internet forums is part of the reason why our country is so polar.
To stay on topic...Texas has problems, but nowhere near Califorina's. A state like California should not have the problems it has now. The market is so large and the beautiful landscape is basically a large resort except with actual industries to work and grow in.
It takes alot of stupidity to screw up a state like California... but the voters keep electing the same morons that screwed it up in the fist place.
Another personal agenda ("californio").
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Originally Posted by slo1318
It doesnt matter what the ratios are, youve been on the farm to long. Put your company trousers on and use some proper english so we can tell just what you are trying to say. Are you a trust fund baby, who worked the fire brigade to "make a difference" while the family fortune was securely run by rest of the family?
I'm assuming he's putting on an affectation. I'd be as embarrassed as hell if I talked (or wrote) as badly as he does. What is this anyway, "hick cool?" If so it isn't cool with me. I respect people who are educated and that includes being able to write using correct grammar.
Argue with the Tax foundation, not me. Look, we pay around $600,000 in property tax alone. If anyone would think we are over taxed it would be me. But, what we do cannot be done to the same profitability in any other state, we could not make as much money in any other state, that includes the taxes we pay.
You see, those who whine, are just whiners, if they don't have this to whine about, they have that to whine about, if you take that away from them, they will just come up with something else.
It has more to do with how one views oneself in the world than with any externals.
I mentioned elsewhere that I spent close to 40 years in a work environment where whining or complaining was not allowed, simply, not allowed, I find it a continual source of annoyance that the rest of the world seems to be full of complainers, get over it, in 50 or 100 years you will be as dead as a doorknob. Get out side, do something, quit bitching.
...a long time ago, an old family friend had been unlucky in his personal relationships. After 3 failed marriages, his painful summation was that when socioeconomic histories differ relationships are most likely to fail.
The underpinnings of wealth, worth, work, debt, relationship to/with government, self visualization, all vary...
Someone who states "we pay around $600,000 in property tax" yearly, and yet has worked a majority of his life in "fire suppression"... frankly, will have little in common with the vast majority of Californians...
"always consider the source".
Thanks, highnlite. I appreciate the validation.
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California's three major public pension funds are underfunded by more than half a trillion dollars, according to a 
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