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Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,684,265 times
Reputation: 2622
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Cost benefit analysis, says, sounds good to me.
The US spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare, this process is the start of reducing that.
I like that I have two kids that get another 5 years and 8 years on their mother's insurance, and that millions benefit from that, and that ya'll get to help pay for it, just as you have been helping pay my healthcare for as long as you have paid taxes.
You see, as we spread the cost, we reduce the cost to the nation. I can hardly complain if the new healthcare extends coverage, my hard core rightwing brother who lives with a preexisting condition that prevents him from getting insurance will be able to get it. Of course, he rants and raves about Obamacare just like the other whackos, but gets a very funny look on his face when I point out the benefit, the same funny look he got when he blew a hole in his heart and the state of California picked up the $100,000+ cost of saving his neck.
I find it humorous that there are those who complain about "Obamacare" and other government services, until of course they need them, then it alright.
The US spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare, this process is the start of reducing that.
I like that I have two kids that get another 5 years and 8 years on their mother's insurance, and that millions benefit from that, and that ya'll get to help pay for it, just as you have been helping pay my healthcare for as long as you have paid taxes.
You see, as we spread the cost, we reduce the cost to the nation. I can hardly complain if the new healthcare extends coverage, my hard core rightwing brother who lives with a preexisting condition that prevents him from getting insurance will be able to get it. Of course, he rants and raves about Obamacare just like the other whackos, but gets a very funny look on his face when I point out the benefit, the same funny look he got when he blew a hole in his heart and the state of California picked up the $100,000+ cost of saving his neck.
I find it humorous that there are those who complain about "Obamacare" and other government services, until of course they need them, then it alright.
I would like to first have you admit that Obama care results in increased costs for healthcare providers and that in turn results in increased premiums. This is an aside from the explicit taxes that also serve to fund this. Once We agree on that we can talk about cost benefit analysis.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,684,265 times
Reputation: 2622
Is this a playground? I have to "admit" something in order to proceed with the game?
Perhaps you missed my point.
In order to make health insurance available for currently not insured, or under insured, there is a cost to society, the benefit to doing that, is , in the longterm, lower healthcare costs.
One day with sufficient sacrifice we may approach the French in the quality of our healthcare.
One day with sufficient sacrifice we may approach the American VA system in the quality of our healthcare.
One day with sufficient sacrifice we may approach the American Congress in the quality of our healthcare.
I suggest, you consider the long term, The new healthcare system is heavily flawed, thanks to the moronic Conservatives, but, it is a start. After 2012 when the Conservatives have once again been tossed out on their butts, we can extend the system. If we emulate the Euros we can reduce our national healthcare costs to something like the 9% of GDP the Euros enjo.
The United States ranks somewhere between 17th and 24th in the world in quality of healthcare, depending on whose ranking is referenced. Surely you do not think bring our healthcare system up to 1st world standards will happen without cost?
Its not the quality its the access. Its restructuring of cost and the fact that the size of the US is much much larger than the Euro countries individually. We have the best schools, doctors and hospitals. Its the system that ailing.
Is this a playground? I have to "admit" something in order to proceed with the game?
Perhaps you missed my point.
I didn't. So, i'll state it. Obamacare has resulted in people's premiums going up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite
In order to make health insurance available for currently not insured, or under insured, there is a cost to society, the benefit to doing that, is , in the longterm, lower healthcare costs.
There is this funny little thing called economics ... The benefit to many things that money can afford is clear.. The trouble is understanding what you can afford .......
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite
One day with sufficient sacrifice we may approach the French in the quality of our healthcare.
Being someone who actively trades equity/currency, the 'quality of social' services in Europe has resulted in their widespread bankruptcy .. It will soon result in separation of various Union members ... Again, I reflect on 'economics'... Compassion might be infinite but money is not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite
One day with sufficient sacrifice we may approach the American VA system in the quality of our healthcare.
One day with sufficient sacrifice we may approach the American Congress in the quality of our healthcare.
Ah', the large number of examples for which government initiatives have resulted in absolute failure and waste. Our debt, crumbling infrastructure, and overpaid public 'servants' are a testament to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite
I suggest, you consider the long term, The new healthcare system is heavily flawed, thanks to the moronic Conservatives, but, it is a start. After 2012 when the Conservatives have once again been tossed out on their butts, we can extend the system. If we emulate the Euros we can reduce our national healthcare costs to something like the 9% of GDP the Euros enjo.
Europe is a shining example of how, in the long term, fundamentals and reality catch up to you. It's an overtaxed/unproductive land of laziness and market forces are pricing in this reality. America would be even more screwed than them if they try to emulate their level of social services due mainly to our lack of strict immigration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite
The United States ranks somewhere between 17th and 24th in the world in quality of healthcare, depending on whose ranking is referenced. Surely you do not think bring our healthcare system up to 1st world standards will happen without cost?
Alot of America's problems have to do w/ americans. The way Americans eat. The way Americans don't take care of their bodies/exercise/etc. Yeah, no one want to hear that and just would like to think.. if you toss money at the problem, it's just going to fix everything... Sorta how California thinks .. Thus why it is broke as a joke .. Education system still ranks in the pits and there is nothing significant to show from all the taxation... So
Kinda the reason why I have learned to just accept someone having a difference of opinion. People just see the world different. It's a good thing IMO. But it speaks to why there should be less govt... have you own opinion .. it's fine.. just pay for it yourself.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,684,265 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
the 'quality of social' services in Europe has resulted in their widespread bankruptcy
Tell us about those wide spread bankruptcies?
Quote:
It's an overtaxed/unproductive land of laziness and market forces are pricing in this reality
Let us take France for a moment, worker productivity in France is higher than in the US
French agricultural output is nearly half the US, on 1/15th the land.
France consistently ranks at the top of surveys of quality of live, the US doesn't make the top 10
and again, look at your syntax, I knew what you meant from your context, but not your convoluted syntax.
So, some mouthpiece says some garbage during 'campaigning' and you just up and believe him? Nice job.
Rates are going up PARTIALLY because of obama care and that is a fact. Most of the reform doesn't go into affect until 2014 but the measures which fund it go into affect now and they costs $$$$$. If you want me to pull up facts/charts/numbers I will but I think you need to do some yourself as opposed to believing some mouthpiece who spreads b.s so you approve of his measures.
If you look at the 5 year trend it doesn't take much brain power to see continued increases were all but guaranteed. Which is why it wasn't just the mouthpieces bringing this point up on the campaign trail, it was the analysts and most everyone else with half a brain. Yet, it would have been stupid not to expect to see people unfairly blaming the reform for these continued premium increases right after it was passed.
The bottom line is this - could the reform be responsible for higher costs this early on? Possibly, but nobody really knows for sure. All we're going to hear is the arguments against it, and those people looking to prove that it's costing more are not going to be looking for data that proves there might be offsetting factors, as that doesn't help their argument. So how can we get a fair analysis from the critics? The point is, something was done to try and make the system better and we'll have to sit back and see if it actually works. Would not passing any reform result in lowering premiums? Even those who hate what was passed know the easy answer to that.
Instead of attacking my character by making assumptions about who and what I listen to (like every politician seems to do these days), try adding something positive to the discussion. Why is it that everyone is quick to attack each other these days instead of having a good debate. From the politicians to discussion forums it's the same. It's the only true trickle-down effect that seems to be working these days.
I didn't. So, i'll state it. Obamacare has resulted in people's premiums going up.
There is this funny little thing called economics ... The benefit to many things that money can afford is clear.. The trouble is understanding what you can afford .......
Being someone who actively trades equity/currency, the 'quality of social' services in Europe has resulted in their widespread bankruptcy .. It will soon result in separation of various Union members ... Again, I reflect on 'economics'... Compassion might be infinite but money is not.
Ah', the large number of examples for which government initiatives have resulted in absolute failure and waste. Our debt, crumbling infrastructure, and overpaid public 'servants' are a testament to that.
Europe is a shining example of how, in the long term, fundamentals and reality catch up to you. It's an overtaxed/unproductive land of laziness and market forces are pricing in this reality. America would be even more screwed than them if they try to emulate their level of social services due mainly to our lack of strict immigration.
Alot of America's problems have to do w/ americans. The way Americans eat. The way Americans don't take care of their bodies/exercise/etc. Yeah, no one want to hear that and just would like to think.. if you toss money at the problem, it's just going to fix everything... Sorta how California thinks .. Thus why it is broke as a joke .. Education system still ranks in the pits and there is nothing significant to show from all the taxation... So
Kinda the reason why I have learned to just accept someone having a difference of opinion. People just see the world different. It's a good thing IMO. But it speaks to why there should be less govt... have you own opinion .. it's fine.. just pay for it yourself.
If Obamacare was such a major setback for health care insurers, why did their stocks go up when it was passed? Will it change the face of the insurance industry? Certainly. Will some costs go up? Will some go down? Will things change? Will it get better? Will it get worse? Who knows. Would it have made sense to do nothing?
You keep mentioning "economics". The reality is, there is no profit to be made offering health care to those who cannot afford it. It simply doesn't make financial sense. What good is having the most advanced health care solutions if only a small percentage of the population can afford it? There is no getting around sharing the costs among the healthy. And without an emphasis on preventative health care there is no way of reducing the future costs.
Those who don't want Obamacare believe in the basic principle of survival of the fittest, where those who have the money will be able to afford health care and those who can't, well, too bad for them they should have worked harder. Others want to see a fundamental change in the system so that the health care insurers don't dictate the quality and accessibility of our care. We all want lower costs, we just have a difference of opinion on how to achieve that goal. But we also want more access to the benefits in the meantime so that we can stay alive long enough to see it happen.
Everyone is crying out about the government getting involved but do you mean to tell me you're not sick of the insurers trying to deny you coverage every chance they get, at the same time constantly raising your rates so that they can please their share holders by growing their profits? Every time an insurer increases profits it means they've taken in more than they've paid out. Which means they'll keep doing whatever they can to decrease what they pay out. It seems like a major conflict of interest to me.
It's a sure thing that Anthem Blue Cross is going to raise their rates at every possible opportunity, will use any available excuse or even provide no reason at all beyond "increased costs." They've been doing this for the last 5 years, raising my rates 1-2 times a year. (I have an individual policy because I'm too young for Medicare and don't have any employer.) I've been insured by Blue Cross for about a dozen years and the increases started about 5 or several years ago. Before then I was a "good paid" () engineer and didn't have any complaint about their rates.
Argue about rates going up all you like. The simple explanation that "that's what the traffic will bear" is sufficient to explain everything. It's pointless to blame it on Obamacare because (1) it's explainable without invoking Obamacare, and (2) Obamacare is the law of the land, at least for the present. Whether or not Obamacare caused it doesn't change anything.
It's a sure thing that Anthem Blue Cross is going to raise their rates at every possible opportunity, will use any available excuse or even provide no reason at all beyond "increased costs." They've been doing this for the last 5 years, raising my rates 1-2 times a year. (I have an individual policy because I'm too young for Medicare and don't have any employer.) I've been insured by Blue Cross for about a dozen years and the increases started about 5 or several years ago. Before then I was a "good paid" () engineer and didn't have any complaint about their rates.
Argue about rates going up all you like. The simple explanation that "that's what the traffic will bear" is sufficient to explain everything. It's pointless to blame it on Obamacare because (1) it's explainable without invoking Obamacare, and (2) Obamacare is the law of the land, at least for the present. Whether or not Obamacare caused it doesn't change anything.
Well said.
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) engineer and didn't have any complaint about their rates.
