thank goodness for California environmentalism (Fortuna: apartment complex, homes, buy)

[BlackShoe]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Your decision to stick with incandescents is based on emotion, not on data.

The decision to do so by those of us that have taken this step is really not about light bulbs at all, it is rather about resisting the ever increasing power and control of government at all levels over our lives. While there most surely are practical reasons for rejecting the new bulbs, for some of us it is a political statement and a gesture, small though it might be, of rebellion against the power of government. Taking this a bit farther, some of us are now starting to save plastic grocery bags, which the eco-Nazis have deemed unacceptable. For years I saved them and put them in the recycle bins at the markets, now starting to keep them.

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by dank

CFL vs LED - Green Face-off | Greenzer.com

It says LED bulbs are down to about $30-$40 but they last 10 times as long as CFL, so they're basically the same price but LED is much more envirornmentally freindly. And then if LED were mandated instead of CFL, it would be even cheaper because the price would drop dramatically with everyone buying them.

While economies of scale is a well known economic principle, its foolish to believe that the cost of something will come down simply because people are forced to buy it.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

The decision to do so by those of us that have taken this step is really not about light bulbs at all, it is rather about resisting the ever increasing power and control of government at all levels over our lives. While there most surely are practical reasons for rejecting the new bulbs, for some of us it is a political statement and a gesture, small though it might be, of rebellion against the power of government. Taking this a bit farther, some of us are now starting to save plastic grocery bags, which the eco-Nazis have deemed unacceptable. For years I saved them and put them in the recycle bins at the markets, now starting to keep them.

Cars are more expensive with federally mandated safety requirements.
Aircraft are more expensive with federally mandated requirements and inspections.
Highways are more expensive with federally mandated design standards
Food is more expensive with federally mandated requirements

Shoes and clothing are more expensive without the use of child labor.

Your life is made much better and safer by federally mandated requirements, and you like it.
Hey, lets shut down all those socialist harbor navigation aids, junk the socialist lighthouses.

Yes, by your answer you showed that you are driven by emotion and belief and prejudice rather than facts or data.

Here, I have little test for you. Turn on one of your incandescent bulbs, wait 15 minutes, then unscrew it with your bare hands.

How did that go? Did you feel some heat? Did you burn? Of course you did, because most of the energy used in an incandescent lightbulb creates heat, not light.

Now, try the same experiment with flourescent or LED.. Did you notice a difference?

Incandescent bulbs are an expensive way to light your house, or heat your house.

The benefit to society in reducing energy use is profound, and since luddites don't like new stuff that will save them money, and help the society they are part of, the government gets to step in and save them from themselves. Kinda like the socialist Coast Guard.

[maja]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Cars are more expensive with federally mandated safety requirements.
Aircraft are more expensive with federally mandated requirements and inspections.
Highways are more expensive with federally mandated design standards
Food is more expensive with federally mandated requirements

Shoes and clothing are more expensive without the use of child labor.

Your life is made much better and safer by federally mandated requirements, and you like it.
Hey, lets shut down all those socialist harbor navigation aids, junk the socialist lighthouses.

Yes, by your answer you showed that you are driven by emotion and belief and prejudice rather than facts or data.

Here, I have little test for you. Turn on one of your incandescent bulbs, wait 15 minutes, then unscrew it with your bare hands.

How did that go? Did you feel some heat? Did you burn? Of course you did, because most of the energy used in an incandescent lightbulb creates heat, not light.

Now, try the same experiment with flourescent or LED.. Did you notice a difference?

Incandescent bulbs are an expensive way to light your house, or heat your house.

The benefit to society in reducing energy use is profound, and since luddites don't like new stuff that will save them money, and help the society they are part of, the government gets to step in and save them from themselves. Kinda like the socialist Coast Guard.

Here, I have a llittle test for you. Unscrew one of your CFL bulbs and like occassionally happens to us all, drop and break it in your home. Now, quickly turn off your heating/ac unit, open windows, grab your safety goggles, protective gloves, duct tape, plastic bag/glass jar w/metal lid and begin cleaning up the mercury laden glass which you will then take in a sealed container to your local TOXIC WASTE DUMP because this new lightbulb is NOT safer. It is more dangerous and we are being forced to use these mercury lightbulbs while at the same time, general contractors are being mandated by the same government to remove mercury containing thermostats from our homes. Our life is NOT safer thanks to the Government and we don't like it.

snopes.com: CFL Mercury Light Bulbs

[Fontucky]

There are applications around the home where CFLs don't cut it.

• Can lights with usable brightness, due to heat built-up
• The light above the cook top, same reason
• Outside lights in cold temp applications
• Reading lights
• Working lights in areas that need high brightness, such as the kitchen and bathroom
• Floodlights outside. I haven't seen the CFL floodlamp that can approach the usable brightness of a halogen or arc lamp

Once they come up with a CFL that's bright enough for work/reading and doesn't die early due to heat, I'll replace my those incandescents and halogens as well. By then I expect LED lighting will have replaced CFLs, though.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by maja

Here, I have a llittle test for you. Unscrew one of your CFL bulbs and like occassionally happens to us all, drop and break it in your home. Now, quickly turn off your heating/ac unit, open windows, grab your safety goggles, protective gloves, duct tape, plastic bag/glass jar w/metal lid and begin cleaning up the mercury laden glass which you will then take in a sealed container to your local TOXIC WASTE DUMP because this new lightbulb is NOT safer. It is more dangerous and we are being forced to use these mercury lightbulbs while at the same time, general contractors are being mandated by the same government to remove mercury containing thermostats from our homes. Our life is NOT safer thanks to the Government and we don't like it.

snopes.com: CFL Mercury Light Bulbs

Well mate, I dun been using flourescents for 20 years in my houses, and haven't dropped and broken one yet. Your last sentence is just plain silly, if I were to list all the ways the guvment has made your life safer, I would not have room here, but, you could start by reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.

There are applications around the home where CFLs don't cut it.

• Can lights with usable brightness, due to heat built-up
• The light above the cook top, same reason
• Outside lights in cold temp applications
• Reading lights
• Working lights in areas that need high brightness, such as the kitchen and bathroom
• Floodlights outside. I haven't seen the CFL floodlamp that can approach the usable brightness of a halogen or arc lamp

Here is my experience, I have had nothing but fluorescent for the past 20 years. and that included 17 years in Truckee a darned cold place in the winter. While it is true that halogen or arc is brighter, I am not sure why a homeowner would need that brightness.

our, can lights, cooktop lights, outside lights (in winter, in Truckee), our reading lights, kitchen and bathroom lights and outside floodlights are and were, all fluorescent. I have found no problems except with the can lights, the narrow U shape fluorescents work best there.

I started with the fluorescent because my house in Truckee was on photo voltaics, energy conservation was important. I have continued because of my Scot ancestry. Our power use for our lighting is minimal

[maja]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Well mate, I dun been using flourescents for 20 years in my houses, and haven't dropped and broken one yet. Your last sentence is just plain silly, if I were to list all the ways the guvment has made your life safer, I would not have room here, but, you could start by reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.

This is NOT one of them.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by maja

This is NOT one of them.

But that is not what you said, you made an all inclusive statement when you needed to be specific.

[BlackShoe]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

if I were to list all the ways the guvment has made your life safer, I would not have room here, but, you could start by reading The Jungle by Upton Sinclair.

Sinclair was an ardent Socialist. Besides, what the heck does the meatpacking industry in 1906 have to do with lightbulbs and government control in 2011??

[.highnlite]

Nothing wrong with Socialism, every modern industrial nation in the world is Socialist to one degree or another, including all the nations that beat the pants off America in all quality of life parameters (I know conservatives cannot bring themselves to see that obvious truth, but that is inherently humorous)

I thought my inference was clear, start with The Jungle did not mean end with The Jungle any human interested in knowledge needs to start someplace.

Government "control" of things which kill, maim and injure society did not start in 2011. In California the first "terrible enviromentalist' law prevented the gold miners using hydraulic mining to extract gold from public land (without royalties or other payments to the treasury for their extraction of public minerals) to destroy farm land in the Sacramento Valley, which they were doing.

Gee, and that was in the 19th Century, long before 2011.