Gov. Jerry Brown not giving up on tax hikes to help California budget (San Jose: layoffs, college)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

I'm sure you're quite used to it seeing as how you engender it.

I'm use to it because its a common attitude displayed by Americans, especially working-class Americans. I hear it a lot among this group, not so much in other groups. Regardless, the comments are silly.

[steel7]

Originally Posted by user_id

Cops, firefighters and prison guards don't all make over $100k.

Anyhow, cops, firefighters, etc are all in special positions in society and having good pay is important to limit corruption.

There is plenty of corruption going on with alot of cops, firefighters & prison guards in ca.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by steel7

There is plenty of corruption going on with alot of cops, firefighters & prison guards in ca.

You will never eliminate corruption entirely, but good pay plays an important role in minimizing corruption.

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by user_id

... but good pay plays an important role in minimizing corruption.

Right...and we see so much of that minimizing of corruption exemplified by our high paid Wall Street executives, bankers and mortgage companies executives, and our good ole US government officials.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TVC15

Right...and we see so much of that minimizing of corruption exemplified by our high paid Wall Street executives, bankers and mortgage companies executives, and our good ole US government officials.

I'm talking about the police force kiddo.

[yeahthatguy]

Would increasing police salaries reduce corruption?
No! Both the Knapp and Mollen Commissions of Inquiry into police corruption both
recommended that police salaries be increased. These were the only recommendations
that were not implemented or acted upon. In the NYPD those officers who are not able
to make ends meet through their police salaries take on second jobs (presumably
authorised). Of course there will be a small minority that will attempt to steal of become
involved in corruption to make extra money – hence the need for the IAB.
Internal Affairs Bureau (IAB)

Finding out the corruption and nailing them w/ consequences .. checks and balances....
Accountability.. Simple solutions to the minority of police officers who decide to be corrupt.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccpc/downloa...eview_unit.pdf
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccpc/html/reports/reports.shtml
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccpc/downloa...and_center.pdf

Most police departments have already figured it out.. Decent wages.. good employee screening... Accountability ....... and Internal Affairs !
Summarized (with no mention of higher pay) :
http://www.ethicsinstitute.com/pdf/D...n%20Report.pdf

Have a good day user_id

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by user_id

I'm talking about the police force kiddo.

Thanks for that clarification Daddy Oh

[user_id]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

Would increasing police salaries reduce corruption?

Yet more straw men. You have trouble focusing on what is actually stated, when did I suggest that California should increase cop salaries? I didn't, rather, I stated that its important to pay a police force well due to the uniqueness of their situation. The same applies to all public workers, but its most acute with the police force, prison, etc.

People were discussing cuts to police, etc here. The question is whether a reduction in salary would result in a reduction in police force quality. The issue of corruption is obviously not the only issue here either, lower pay will result in lower quality cops as well. The idea that you can get the same quality of workers for lower pay is economic fantasy....

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by user_id

Yet more straw men. You have trouble focusing on what is actually stated, when did I suggest that California should increase cop salaries? I didn't, rather, I stated that its important to pay a police force well due to the uniqueness of their situation. The same applies to all public workers, but its most acute with the police force, prison, etc.

People were discussing cuts to police, etc here. The question is whether a reduction in salary would result in a reduction in police force quality. The issue of corruption is obviously not the only issue here either, lower pay will result in lower quality cops as well. The idea that you can get the same quality of workers for lower pay is economic fantasy....

It's not straw man :
"Originally Posted by user_id
Job screening is not going to guarantee a lack of corruption. The police force due to their special position have the opportunity to make large gains from corruption, that is there are large incentives to become corrupt. Good pay reduces the incentives. "

Job screening reduces corruption.
Internal affairs reduces corruption.
A culture of morality reduces corruption...
"The police force due to their special position have the opportunity to make large gains from corruption, that is there are large incentives to become corrupt." <- FALSE
Good pay reduces the incentives. <-Read below for clarification of this vague statement ..

I asked a question, explain to me how I am committing straw man by doing so ? I never stated that was your position . I clarified 'solutions' to corruption ...
Do less incorrect referencing to academic concepts next time and more refining your statement and things will go better.

Would increasing police salaries reduce corruption?
No! Both the Knapp and Mollen Commissions of Inquiry into police corruption both
recommended that police salaries be increased. These were the only recommendations
that were not implemented or acted upon. In the NYPD those officers who are not able
to make ends meet through their police salaries take on second jobs (presumably
authorised). Of course there will be a small minority that will attempt to steal of become
involved in corruption to make extra money – hence the need for the IAB.
Internal Affairs Bureau (IAB)

Finding out the corruption and nailing them w/ consequences .. checks and balances....
Accountability.. Simple solutions to the minority of police officers who decide to be corrupt.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccpc/downloa...eview_unit.pdf
Commission to Combat Police Corruption Reports
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccpc/downloa...and_center.pdf

Most police departments have already figured it out.. Decent wages.. good employee screening... Accountability ....... and Internal Affairs !
Summarized (with no mention of higher pay) :
http://www.ethicsinstitute.com/pdf/D...n%20Report.pdf

By the same token, reducing the pay of overpaid cops wont lead to more corruption ...

Originally Posted by user_id

The idea that you can get the same quality of workers for lower pay is economic fantasy....

It isn't to me... and I argue what quality we already have in the first place... If it means less revenue enforcers roaming the streets trying to ticket someone going 5 mph over the speed limit who poses no harm to society ... so be it. If they don't want to perform their job at a reduced pay in this economy where you are lucky to have one, fire their behinds and let someone who would happily do the job come and do it .. Supply/demand .. unless you have forgotten that elementary principle of economics. In the private sector we see its impacts on the amount of jobs offered and the reduced pay they are offered at .. You dont see people running around breaking the law as a result.. even people who make minimum wage and have access to cash drawers ... why? Because the (few) who do would be found out and prosecuted.. otherwise, surprise.... people have morals and values which is probably why you don't see the world in chaos.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

It's not straw man :
"Originally Posted by user_id
Job screening is not going to guarantee a lack of corruption. The police force due to their special position have the opportunity to make large gains from corruption, that is there are large incentives to become corrupt. Good pay reduces the incentives. "

Yes, I said that and what you're posting doesn't address it whatsoever. What you are posting says nothing about the general relationship between pay and corruption, its about NYC which already has a decently paid police force.

You are once again so narrowly focused on a particular political ideology that you can't see the forest for the trees, what you're posting here agrees with me, namely:

"Most police departments have already figured it out.. Decent wages.. good employee screening... Accountability ....... and Internal Affairs !
Summarized (with no mention of higher pay) :"

Good pay is just one component to reducing corruption in a police force, it should by no means by the only component. Never have I suggested that a police department should just pay well and ignore everything else...

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

If they don't want to perform their job at a reduced pay in this economy where you are lucky to have one, fire their behinds and let someone who would happily do the job come and do it .. Supply/demand ..

Yep supply and demand. Why would someone become disinterested in performing a job at a reduced wage? Because.....they have alternatives. Reducing wages will result in your most intelligent and talented police officers, namely those with the most alternatives, to leave the police force. Similarly, low pay fails to attract top candidates because these candidates will have alternatives.

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

even people who make minimum wage and have access to cash drawers ... why?

Because they will easily get caught, any sensible business will balance out the cash register with total sales. This is not to mention most businesses have cameras watching them. But this is different than police force corruption, police force corruption is harder to detect, there is no simple method to catching it. Again, the police are breaking the very laws they are hired to enforce.. Catching police force corruption often involves time consuming analysis by an outside organization, in particular the FBI.

But, as with everything else, a cashier with low pay is more likely to steal from their employer than one with higher pay. They just won't be stealing in ways that are easy to catch. Theft is a big issue in retail, they just aren't typically stealing cash. They are stealing products, they are incorrectly scanning out friends orders, etc.