Supreme Court rejects challenge of tuition break for illegal immigrants (San Diego: unemployment, public schools)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

Yes....but they shouldn't have gone to local high schools, shouldn't have drivers licenses, and should have paid fully into the taxation system. Which they didn't. I don't believe paying sales taxes is enough.

Whether they should have or should not have is irrelevant, they did. I have no idea why you think they aren't paying fully into the tax system, these kids have working parents and/or other relatives that are paying taxes. Its not just sales tax, its property tax, its fuel tax, etc. Most illegal workers use fake docs or working permits, so the majority are paying income taxes as well.

Regardless, these kids look just like legal state residents with the exception of their federal immigration status. The real issue here is that states have no ability to make these people legal....

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I agree with all but the bolded part. They should only be legal WHEN AND IF they go through the proper procedures to become legal. Yes, they had no choice in what their parents did but this country still has a process for a reason.

They have little hope of becoming legal by going threw the "proper procedures" and that is precisely the problem. Do you seriously believe these people are just too lazy to try to become legal citizens?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Nice sound bite. You can be the first volunteer to have your income tax at least doubled to help support illegal immigrants.

I don't mind paying higher taxes to support programs for kids that should be legal, but aren't because of poor federal immigration policies. No problem at all.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by user_id

They have little hope of becoming legal by going threw the "proper procedures" and that is precisely the problem. Do you seriously believe these people are just too lazy to try to become legal citizens?

Whether they're too lazy we'll never know. What I do believe is if we make it so much easier for them than we did past immigrants, they're going to take advantage of that. Why is it so much harder for today's immigrants than from past immigrants? If it's really so much harder for them, perhaps they're not a good fit for this country. We are the only industrialized nation that plays around with the idea of changing it's immigration policy.

I know we're a nation of immigrants but those immigrants have always had to work hard for their place at the table. My great great grandfather was one such person. He only spoke French, no English. He was refused service in a deli (from what I was told anyway) because he could not order his food. There was no press one for English etc. etc.

I know I mat sound harsh but when you and your girlfriend get passed up for jobs because you have American names and don't speak Spanish, it becomes a bit personal. Yeahthatguy and myself don't agree on much but he's made good points with this.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Whether they're too lazy we'll never know. What I do believe is if we make it so much easier for them than we did past immigrants, they're going to take advantage of that. Why is it so much harder for today's immigrants than from past immigrants?

Its not, you're just ignoring the fact that all the illegals from the past are dead and their children are all legal because they were born in the US.

As time goes by today's illegals will die and their children, grand-children, etc will all be US citizens.

Originally Posted by Gentoo

He was refused service in a deli (from what I was told anyway) because he could not order his food. There was no press one for English etc. etc.

You appear to be rewriting History, immigrants in the past grouped themselves in ethnic communities just like they do today. Travel to the east coast, most of these communities still exist on some level. Today, just as the past, first-generation immigrants primarily spoke their native language.

In terms of Spanish, hey, private businesses are going to do what is in their best interest. If they have a large Spanish speaking customer base, they're going to want someone that speaks Spanish. You could always learn Spanish......

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Nice sound bite. You can be the first volunteer to have your income tax at least doubled to help support illegal immigrants.

Agreed... I like to feel all such people should pool their money together to back what their mouths keep yappin. If you feel so strongly about it IMO go sponsor one of em and be responsible for covering them financially ... I find a great deal of people when you ask them to put their money where their mouth is ... and the key is 'their' money.. not some of their's and oh that guy's over there.. no.. put your hard earned money and no one else's towards your beliefs. You'd find a lot of people's sound bites terminate if they were forced to do this. That or 'surprise' .... they'd have limitations on how much 'giving' they'd like. There are always limits and bounds .. They tend to be blurred though when its someone else's resources and money...

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by user_id

Its not, you're just ignoring the fact that all the illegals from the past are dead and their children are all legal because they were born in the US.

As time goes by today's illegals will die and their children, grand-children, etc will all be US citizens.


You appear to be rewriting History, immigrants in the past grouped themselves in ethnic communities just like they do today. Travel to the east coast, most of these communities still exist on some level. Today, just as the past, first-generation immigrants primarily spoke their native language.

In terms of Spanish, hey, private businesses are going to do what is in their best interest. If they have a large Spanish speaking customer base, they're going to want someone that speaks Spanish. You could always learn Spanish......

Listen, you didn't get what I was saying. First of all, I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon against you so calm down. Immigrants of the past did not have the luxury of demanding things be in their native language. Italians still had to learn English and still had to go through a process to be here. Same with French and German speaking immigrants. Today, Spanish and to some degree, Chinese speaking immigrants are given a lot more leeway in terms of procedures.

As far as today's illegals dying out, well yeah duh, people don't live forever. Problem is, there is a steady stream of new illegals and this is where the actual problem comes in. Please do not talk to me about how this has not affected citizens of all races and nationalities, including those who are of the same as the illegals. Come live within site of Mexico as I do and go shopping and drive the streets and you will get a first hand look at how this has affected our society.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by user_id

I don't mind paying higher taxes to support programs for kids that should be legal, but aren't because of poor federal immigration policies. No problem at all.

Good .. No go find all the other people who don't mind and amongst that group pay 5% more taxes to fund it.... Not force everyone who does mind paying higher taxes to support it to fund the program.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Listen, you didn't get what I was saying. First of all, I'm not trying to jump on the bandwagon against you so calm down. Immigrants of the past did not have the luxury of demanding things be in their native language. Italians still had to learn English and still had to go through a process to be here. Same with French and German speaking immigrants. Today, Spanish and to some degree, Chinese speaking immigrants are given a lot more leeway in terms of procedures.

As far as today's illegals dying out, well yeah duh, people don't live forever. Problem is, there is a steady stream of new illegals and this is where the actual problem comes in. Please do not talk to me about how this has not affected citizens of all races and nationalities, including those who are of the same as the illegals. Come live within site of Mexico as I do and go shopping and drive the streets and you will get a first hand look at how this has affected our society.

User_id lives in an enclave far removed from such things as do many of the clowns who run this state .. far removed from the crime.. far removed form people who don't speak the language .. far removed from the issues .. and from their ivory towers they utter their decrees of humanitarianism and sprinkle pennies from their purses and demand others draw blood in support of their beliefs. It's a free country in their mind, a free country for them to have beliefs and force others who may/may not believe in it to suffer/pay for it.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Immigrants of the past did not have the luxury of demanding things be in their native language. Italians still had to learn English and still had to go through a process to be here.

Again, you seem to be rewriting history. Italians had huge communities where Italian, not English, was spoken. Businesses that wanted their business would have to speak Italian.

Even today, you can hear Italian, Polish, etc in some of the old eastern ethnic communities. Have you ever traveled outside of the west coast?

Originally Posted by Gentoo

As far as today's illegals dying out, well yeah duh, people don't live forever. Problem is, there is a steady stream of new illegals and this is where the actual problem comes in.

You're not getting the point, old stock Americans forget how they got here, the vast majority of Americans have ancestors that came here illegally.

When you look at it historically, not much as changed, the only real difference is that the new immigrants aren't white and I think that increases the sort of "us/them" distinction that exists between old and new stock Americans.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"