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He posted that sign on the Missouri Threads too. I lived in Missouri for two years. Hated it. Nevee had anything stolen on pilfered while living in California. Within a week of living ion Missouri, some local yahoos broke into a locked garden shed and stole a lawnmower and other lawn and garden tools.
So glad I moved back to CA
Obviously, you didn't do your homework before you moved. Not bright! Not bright at all!
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,157,672 times
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Pensions are unsustainable.. 401ks are standard and one can utilize it just fine to have retirement .. Another points you'd like t make?
I am not a collective.. when I went to school.. I got A's on my own merit .. when I get paid, I like to get paid on my own merit too .. If I am not paid the wage I feel I deserve, I have the right to go find someone who will .. and thus the competitiveness that comes w/ having a right to work..
In the valley its a beautiful thing.. there is currently a wage war going on for engineering talent .... Engineers are not all of the same caliber.. I myself will admit there are some coders who would code circles around me.. I code circles around others .. Want to participate in the evil capitalism machine.. You have the freedom to do that.. Go and get educated and trade/invest in various markets... Instead of blowing my cash on foolishness, I have done just that ... It's a beautiful thing .. In some years, I have made more than my salary in trading/investment income... Right to work gives you freedom to be paid on your own merit.. and that is what this country is based on. Capitalism is our economic model..
The system we have now is fortunately not the predatory, unregulated capitalism of the 19th century, when the vast majority of people working for corporations or rich people lived lives of squalid misery to support a very few wealthy individuals (most of whom inherited rather than earned their wealth). You seem to want to return to that, while I believe that the current system of socialized, regulated capitalism is a better way, and should be further socialized to the point of having universal healthcare just as EVERY other industrialized nation has. We could afford that too if we weren't blowing all our money on the military.
You seem to like predatory capitalism perhaps because you are healthy and smart, and have made some good choices in life and wish to be rewarded for them. I agree that you should be rewarded for your hard work and have a higher salary than most people. It's just that there needs to be a full, basic safety net for the majority who may not be as healthy or clever as you. Not wanton luxury, but at least a basic home, food, and medical care.
I keep harping on medical care because my health is deteriorating and I've needed considerable govt assistance to stay alive. I'd like everyone to be assured of that if necessary, and to be able to see a doctor even when they're young and working without private health insurance (as is true for most people outside your profession), get an annual checkup and advice on being healthy.
Your viewpoint is slanted in the opposite direction partly because you're surrounded by people at work who have valuable talents for which they are offered not just good money, but full bennies. But there are only so many such jobs, and only so many people with the smarts to fill them and the foresight to train for them. I'm concerned more with everyone else, I'd like to see everyone get the basics in life before we try to throw even more money at the wealthy.
California has tried to walk the tightrope and succeeded for a good long time. Now we're in trouble, largely because of the huge pension problem, and also because we can't raise the most stable source of state revenues, property taxes.
I more than welcome your decision to leave California, but it's just not as bad as you and Curmudgeon make it out to be. It's quite a nice place actually, with physical charms and with concern for the environment, and concern for the poor and disabled.
I more than welcome your decision to leave California, but it's just not as bad as you and Curmudgeon make it out to be. It's quite a nice place actually, with physical charms and with concern for the environment, and concern for the poor and disabled.
There is no question that California has much to recommend it to include a lot of very nice, concerned people, beautiful topography, unparalleled in any other state, the ocean and a variety of weather patterns should one choose to travel to them. Whatever ills it also has are primarily man made and the result of attrocious governance. That means they're fixable if only the people had the will to insist upon it, but they don't. They squander much of what's good and their offsprings' legacies. It's a true pity.
California has tried to walk the tightrope and succeeded for a good long time. Now we're in trouble, largely because of the huge pension problem, and also because we can't raise the most stable source of state revenues, property taxes.
Property Taxes can be increased and Proposition 13 details the steps necessary.
Unlike most legislation, Prop 13 is only a few short paragraphs and an easy read.
Prop 13's base rate is 1%... my rate is over 1.5%... 50% higher than Prop 13... so my city and county offer proof positive that it does happen.
The Inland Empire is no more "undesirable" than numerous other areas, for example the Dallas area. In terms of businesses not being attracted to the Inland Empire, it is one of the fastest growing areas of the country, so you believe that everyone in the Inland Empire is independently wealthy?
The high unemployment rate in the inland empire is due to the housing bubble, same thing happened in the Vegas area.
But yes, the state with the largest economy isn't attractive to business. Makes sense....
The state w/ the 'historically largest economy' isn't the state that is attracting the most business or jobs and that's a fact from economic data that you can go google and that has been posted 10-20 times in various threads. The past is not always a predictor of the future. Further, inland empire CA is most definitely not the fast growing area in the country. That is just a flat out lie .. and you can go google that yourself too
There's no business in the IE? I guess I'd better inform all these huge, sprawling distribution centers and industrial parks that surround me.
Compared to another state's major city .. no .. you should go inform them.
There is life and there are jobs but what kind?? and how much compared to another state that comes w/ the properties of inland empire or better w/o the crazy cali regulations and taxes? Your anecdotal commentary doesn't go to get at the bigger picture so please enlighten us all and post data about IE compared to the states that people critique so much. There are two types of California IMO ..
When people talk about the great things about California (Jobs/economy/beauty) they are most certainly talking about the coast ....
but then when someone presses them on the cost they want to reference IE ... Well, IE is worse if not any better than other states that snide comments are made at .. and you get to pay a california premium in way of taxes/cost/regulation that you wont get in those other states... So, no .. IE is not attractive in general. California has a strategic location just like texas does in terms of ports.. It has a population.. that needs to be served...
The major ports btw are :
1 Port of South Louisiana 224,187,320 40,087,413 64,683,390 104,770,803 119,416,519
2 Port of Houston, Texas 202,047,327 97,713,314 39,823,197 137,536,511 64,510,816
3 Port Newark-Elizabeth Marine Terminal, New Jersey 152,377,503 70,748,666 11,450,888 82,199,554 70,177,949
4 Port of Beaumont, Texas 91,697,948 65,315,960 5,558,256 70,874,216 20,823,732 5 Port of Long Beach, California 80,066,130 44,619,556 17,895,852 62,515,408 17,550,722
The system we have now is fortunately not the predatory, unregulated capitalism of the 19th century, when the vast majority of people working for corporations or rich people lived lives of squalid misery to support a very few wealthy individuals (most of whom inherited rather than earned their wealth). You seem to want to return to that, while I believe that the current system of socialized, regulated capitalism is a better way, and should be further socialized to the point of having universal healthcare just as EVERY other industrialized nation has. We could afford that too if we weren't blowing all our money on the military.
You're mixing two things.. Like I said I don't want to get into the union debate .. It is its own topic .. Army vs. Universal healthcare.. Hey, I'm with you.. We spent ~3.7 trillion and counting on the war .. I would obviously support putting it to more constructive use...
As for capitalism.. the past when unions had a purpose (no longer do) .. be careful w/ your timelines.. It's 2011. Lazy public workers/unions who are overpaid are as much a parasite on society as the robber barons on wallstreet. GM went bankrupt due to unions .. Unless you forgot about that little tidbit.
And listen stop ignoring the incredible amount of freedom consumers have..
This is seriously not a joke.. Someone gives you $50,000 .. they tell you ... you can do whatever you want w/ it.. The average fool in America is going to go spend it all .. You talk about evil capitalism ... Look at all the moron consumers : BMW Group posts record earnings for 2010 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum - E90Post.com
Go through a 'hood' and see how many fools are rolling around in $50-60k cars. Meanwhile I took $50-70k, and went and tripled it betting on the stupidity of Americans at the height of the housing bubble..
You have the freedom to be an utter dumb failure in America and a success.. I am not going to dam a system that gives you the freedom to choose. I am going to point out that choices have consequences.... Ignorance is no excuse for making the wrong choices as ignorance has its consequences to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
You seem to like predatory capitalism perhaps because you are healthy and smart, and have made some good choices in life and wish to be rewarded for them. I agree that you should be rewarded for your hard work and have a higher salary than most people. It's just that there needs to be a full, basic safety net for the majority who may not be as healthy or clever as you. Not wanton luxury, but at least a basic home, food, and medical care.
I came from the bottom and made it to the middle. I learned several key things along the way :
> Hard laborious work has great rewards in terms of a feeling of fulfillment
> Money = Freedom/Opportunity .. Not the means to buy junk
> There are many ways to multiply your money
> Sacrifice early on and compound your money and you will have a lot to enjoy
> Leave the earth giving back more than what you took
> Give your child that much more than what your parents gave to you
> IGNORANCE HAS A COST IN LIFE
> TIME = MONEY
Go and look at where people spend their time.. You look at rising companies.. there centered on media/junk/games/bread/circuses for the masses...
People choose this lifestyle en masse .. In America, you have a choice as to how live... I came from a horrid neighborhood.. A poor uneducated household .. I made it to a pretty high level thus far .. How? by sacrificing .. by saying no to short term rewards and holding on for long term.. By not watching TV .. by not trying to feign wealth via materialistic purchases.. by picking up a book .. by not playing games on my cellphone 24/7 .. by doing a lot of things a lot of Americans do which result in their circumstance/position in this country.
We have a basic safety net in this country... One that is far better than a lot of places in the world .. We have a democracy for god's sake.. Look at how many people get involved when trillions are blown on wars instead of their health.. You would expect protests in every street of America.. But what do you see? You see people saying : Oh, i support the president no matter what because he's a democrat.. I support the president no matter what because hes republican... This is a democracy, you get what you deserve.
I repeat .. YOU HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF FREEDOM IN THIS COUNTRY.
Freedom to be a total moron who doesn't get involved in any aspect of the things that shape their country.. Someone who chooses escapism entertainment instead of facing reality head on and trying to change the world...
AMERICA is what it is because people don't care nor are they involved.. Those who are and point out the problems and ways to fix them get beaten down by the general ignorant clowns in the country (which are the majority)... At some point they give up and turn to the darkside and instead exploit the idiot majority .. and do so to protect/offset the impact such morons have on their lives...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
I keep harping on medical care because my health is deteriorating and I've needed considerable govt assistance to stay alive. I'd like everyone to be assured of that if necessary, and to be able to see a doctor even when they're young and working without private health insurance (as is true for most people outside your profession), get an annual checkup and advice on being healthy.
I hope that you are on the road to recovery and better health
Sadly it's not scalable .. or affordable. I'd like everyone in the world to be fed and clothed and housed.. It's just not possible/feasible though.. This is reality.. Harsh reality .... The world is harsh .. There are people eating mud pies who wont live to 30 in the world.. what about them.. they are human too.
On healthcare.. In general . you are healthy not because of it but because you lead a healthy life style.. Sure, sh*t happens, and when it does healthcare is needed .. but lets not mix the general fact that if you pursue a healthy lifestyle you will generally be healthy.. As for checkups, etc .. physicals/etc are quite affordable .. there are many startups now opening affordable dental care to people as well .... There's a problem.. There's always a solution. Govt. is not always the answer..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Your viewpoint is slanted in the opposite direction partly because you're surrounded by people at work who have valuable talents for which they are offered not just good money, but full bennies. But there are only so many such jobs, and only so many people with the smarts to fill them and the foresight to train for them. I'm concerned more with everyone else, I'd like to see everyone get the basics in life before we try to throw even more money at the wealthy.
I try to give my personal info whenever I can to give people insight into my bias/viewpoint... I came from nothing .. I was surrounded most my life by people who don't have talents and were not well off. I have that perspective.. I have the perspective of barely getting by.. Eating one meal a day.. I have the perspective of a dad who cared about his family and worked 3-4 jobs to make sure his kids had better. I have a lot of perspective and by no means do I loose sight of it now that I am 'somewhere'. Look around at the majority of the populous and note the clothing they wear .. the cable they have.. the cars they drive.. the smart phones they have.. the junk they buy ... Look around at people's choices and note what consequences can possibly result from them.. Ponder if these people are even aware of them.. and why?
Education is a fundamental building block to everything. Without it, you're doomed. We give everyone access to education in this country.. Go through various schools in America and observe a great wealth of people throwing this opportunity away. You have countries that are way less prosperous than us yet are more educated .. healthy and probably have more fulfilling lives..
It comes down to valuation .. If you dont value x,y,z and value a,b,c.. x,y,z will become deficient and neglected. I'm not wealthy .. nor are many people here.. I know friends that make 1/3 or 1/4th what I make and live better than me in other places... Which is why I am leaving in a year .. but hey, money is relative .. What is the most valuable thing to me : intelligence .. $$$ comes and goes.. its value rises and falls .. It is a means to an end.. My intelligence accumulated over the years remains... My dignity/morals/values even if all my wealth was confiscated remains.. my culture remains... these are the things that define me.. Put me over in a mud hut and strip away all my possessions and I will still find happiness/humanity.
Declaring that your country should give people x,y,z as a right .. and every increasing those rights is a recipe for disaster.. Look at the current state of the Eurozone....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
California has tried to walk the tightrope and succeeded for a good long time. Now we're in trouble, largely because of the huge pension problem, and also because we can't raise the most stable source of state revenues, property taxes.
I more than welcome your decision to leave California, but it's just not as bad as you and Curmudgeon make it out to be. It's quite a nice place actually, with physical charms and with concern for the environment, and concern for the poor and disabled.
You're in trouble because, like America.. you tucked all your problems under a carpet.. you haven't been doing good .. you've been pretending you were w/ ever increasing debt/obligations.. Same w/ Europe which is on a precipice .. You don't all of a sudden have epic problems.. you slowly build problems YoY and hide problems until they become epic.
California is great. I will never deny that.. The geography is great and the people are too .. None of which came about due to taxes/govt.. I don't forget that ever ! The more you travel america the more you discover other great places. Many other states care for the environment/poor/disabled.. It's a big world .. The question is how much does it cost and is it worth it.. Regardless of whether I have the money, which I have a lot of .. I live my life on principal. The reason I have money (freedom) and thus can make lots of choices is because I ask that critical question in general when I spend my money on something .. Is it worth it ? Do I need it? Can I get it some place cheaper? What is happiness ? Did I have the same amount of it elsewhere? Is this fair? Is this right?
Many people don't live on principal or along this mindset/awareness.. They do what they do .. spend what they spend .. live how someone dictates they live... don't ask questions.. don't challenge status quo .. when someone presses on them they dont press back.. they put their head down and work harder..
I'm not of this breed .. never have been .. maybe its my life experiences that shaped me in this way... After-all, Given my upbringing, I had to constantly identify those who were trying to take advantage and leech.. I had to identify environments and circumstances that weren't best for my well being and change them... I had to open my eyes and keep my eyes wide open to what was happening around me in order to carefully navigate to success/well-being...
So, at this juncture, when I asses the freedom of choice I have .. When I asses the leeching someone is doing.. When I personally asses the value of life here .. It is not adding up .. and as I move to start a family .. and become responsible for the long term livelihood, education, and prosperity of my family/kids. .I have to take it all in and value/weigh things carefully .. see long term risk.. assess trends and the direction of things and pick a place that is suitable for my long terms needs.. and sadly that just isn't here..
I am a vocal person who stands up to things I don't think are right.. This personal trait of mine wont change ... I have done a good amount during my stay in CA and left here giving more than I took .. I got involved in my local community and state govt... I sought changes in things that I thought were a problem and for that I feel o.k .. The changes weren't enough and the direction of this state aren't inline w/ my direction... and thus I must part ways.. the problems will still be problems no matter if I point them out ... other do .. or when I leave.
As you can imagine, sounds pretty extreme.. It's not ... It making calculated/educated/longterm choices.. which the majority of Americans .. Human beings in general don't make .. and there are consequences for not doing this .. Many of which they will never be aware of because they don't understand or even see the reality and the relationships between things before their eyes.. They live and when things happen .. they just happen .. Sometimes they get owned.. sometimes they get lucky ... I don't live this way.. Couldn't have lived this way and made it to where I am ... Alot of people aren't where I am because they lived that way .. Ask them why .. why are you living this way? and they will exhibit their 'high external locus of control' . Those with a high external locus of control believe that powerful others, fate, or chance primarily determine events. ... Because they aren't aware .. they don't see the function.. the gears of life .. These are the people who hope .. who blame.. who point at another man and say he is the reason for my folly .. I could have done that but I noticed no one cares/listens.. If you really feel x is the reason you are where you at.. go and change x and see what it results in.. get feedback from you're actions.. if it turns out adjusting the nob didn't change anything.. go adjust another.. The fact is, people just don't live life at this level of awareness.... They don't value such things and it shows/reflects/has consequences.
It's important thus that people understand the freedoms they have .. the power they have to stand up .. change things, shape their lives, and the lives of others.. It's important for people to understand how this freedom comes about and what threatens it... For there wont always be someone to point out problems for you.. point out leechers for you.. point out the right direction. You must be aware/involved and do so for yourself...
So I wish CA the best but have to see reality for what it is .. I haven't gotten to where I am dreaming and hoping .. I got to where I am being realistic and acting. So cheers
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 07-06-2011 at 02:09 PM..
The IE isn't a city or a state. And as far as your request for data, unlike you, I keep my posts short and sweet. Do your own research.
I thought you were leaving the site?
IE is a conglomerate of cities .. Others compare it to cities/whole states.. not me. You never post data and thus your points have no validity. data is short/sweet.. It only requires a link. I've done my research and general post data which is on-hand. you don't and thus there is no reason to give your 'opinion any weight'.
I thought you were saying something.. but then again, you never do.
IE is a conglomerate of cities .. Others compare it to cities/whole states.. not me. You never post data and thus your points have no validity. data is short/sweet.. It only requires a link. I've done my research and general post data which is on-hand. you don't and thus there is no reason to give your 'opinion any weight'.
I thought you were saying something.. but then again, you never do.
Better that than constantly saying WAY too much. Who has the time or inclination to wade through all those statistics when by their very nature, universally, they're often one-sided at best?
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