All power to the unions (San Jose, San Francisco: home, to buy, to live)

[TimC2462]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Simple. The side of common sense not skewed by greed, avarice and manipulation.

I contributed to my pension and paid premiums for my health care for all of the 25 years I worked for the state. Same for Social Security and Medicare only for 45 years. I expect and believe I'm due a reasonable return on my "investments."

All of this spiking, dream pension formulae and hero worship of the safety professions has gotten out of hand. The military isn't treated as well nor at so great an expense. Retiring young making more in a pension than most make while working for what were historically blue collar jobs is ridiculous and wasteful in my opinion. It's also contrived by the politicians to continue to flow of election dollars into their coffers, not from any sense of altruism.

Any system that drives a state, county or municipality into the poorhouse for the benefit of a very few is rotten at its core and needs to be changed.

It's not state workers I criticize collectively. It's those who take advantage and the unions and politicians that not only permit but encourage it.

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I understand better now.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Simple. The side of common sense not skewed by greed, avarice and manipulation.

I contributed to my pension and paid premiums for my health care for all of the 25 years I worked for the state. Same for Social Security and Medicare only for 45 years. I expect and believe I'm due a reasonable return on my "investments."

All of this spiking, dream pension formulae and hero worship of the safety professions has gotten out of hand. The military isn't treated as well nor at so great an expense. Retiring young making more in a pension than most make while working for what were historically blue collar jobs is ridiculous and wasteful in my opinion. It's also contrived by the politicians to continue to flow of election dollars into their coffers, not from any sense of altruism.

Any system that drives a state, county or municipality into the poorhouse for the benefit of a very few is rotten at its core and needs to be changed.

It's not state workers I criticize collectively. It's those who take advantage and the unions and politicians that not only permit but encourage it.

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

No, just kiss true collective bargaining, employer prerogatives within the framework of existing labor laws and your wallet, goodbye!

You mean that when the municipalities negotiated these contracts they were lying to the Unions or was it like Senator Kyl said "not meant to be a truthful statement. That'll teach Americans to believe what these leeches tell them

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Boompa

You mean that when the municipalities negotiated these contracts they were lying to the Unions or was it like Senator Kyl said "not meant to be a truthful statement. That'll teach Americans to believe what these leeches tell them

Bet you were a track star in school the way you jump to conclusions. To bad all that track time got in thje way of basic courses in logic, reading comprehension and other useful subjects.

I stated what I meant and you've added nothing useful to it.

[Phil306]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

Ehhh, not so sure I completely agree with you here.

If the pay and benefits were something that only came into existence in recent years I'd say you have a point. However, if these have been in existence for extended periods of time and are only now becoming a problem due to other national financial concerns then I'd say you are a bit off base there.

I do agree that public benefits could use an evaluation and change to make them more in line with appropriate compensation. But, I do think there is a LOT OF DEMONIZING and misstating benefits and financial impacts due to the lack of accurate information today.

And I significantly include FOX as a contributor to this lack of accurate public disclosures.

You are absolutely correct in your assessement. The bottom line on this is the fact pay and benefits, including the "dreaded pension plan" has been around forever. The people of California voted for it and approved it. The people of California voted for the elected officials who allowed it.

VERY FEW people, and I gurantee no one on this board, said word one about it 10 years ago. Now, all of a sudden, its an issue and its for one main reason: THEY AREN'T GETTING IT.

If the stock market was still at 14000, NO ONE would be saying a word. However, because some jealous individuals, didn't make a right choice in THEIR careers, they decide to bash others who did.

The blame public employees when the facts are, you could completely abolish the entire system and save "maybe" 4 billiion. The state would still be 20+ billion short in its budget. And the lies, distortions, etc keep on coming in.

And I am by FAR a liberal in California. I am so far to the right, I'm considered a facist, by those who know me.

And save me the: "I'm for fiscal responsibility," BS. If you were, you would have been all over this issue 20+ years ago and you weren't. You didn't care then, because you were fat and happy. Now that you are not, you are simply a jealous fool.

[Phil306]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Simple. The side of common sense not skewed by greed, avarice and manipulation.

I contributed to my pension and paid premiums for my health care for all of the 25 years I worked for the state. Same for Social Security and Medicare only for 45 years. I expect and believe I'm due a reasonable return on my "investments."

All of this spiking, dream pension formulae and hero worship of the safety professions has gotten out of hand. The military isn't treated as well nor at so great an expense. Retiring young making more in a pension than most make while working for what were historically blue collar jobs is ridiculous and wasteful in my opinion. It's also contrived by the politicians to continue to flow of election dollars into their coffers, not from any sense of altruism.

Any system that drives a state, county or municipality into the poorhouse for the benefit of a very few is rotten at its core and needs to be changed.

It's not state workers I criticize collectively. It's those who take advantage and the unions and politicians that not only permit but encourage it.

And so have I. I have paid into my pension system, 12% of my pay, for the past 22 years and will continue too. I also pay for medical benefits as well.

The arguement that public employees pay little or nothing for their benefits IS FALSE. The majority of them do pay; the ones people like to whine about are a privileged few. It IS NOT the majority of people out there.

What people in this state want, is cheap government services, alot of them, and they want someone else to pay for it. They don't want ANYONE to have ANYTHING better then them, especially a low life public employee. They are "public servents." How dare they get something I don't get?

[.highnlite]

Dang Phil, that is the best thing you ever posted. It was rational and spot on...

[mayorhaggar]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Simple. The side of common sense not skewed by greed, avarice and manipulation.

I contributed to my pension and paid premiums for my health care for all of the 25 years I worked for the state. Same for Social Security and Medicare only for 45 years. I expect and believe I'm due a reasonable return on my "investments."

All of this spiking, dream pension formulae and hero worship of the safety professions has gotten out of hand. The military isn't treated as well nor at so great an expense. Retiring young making more in a pension than most make while working for what were historically blue collar jobs is ridiculous and wasteful in my opinion. It's also contrived by the politicians to continue to flow of election dollars into their coffers, not from any sense of altruism.

Any system that drives a state, county or municipality into the poorhouse for the benefit of a very few is rotten at its core and needs to be changed.

It's not state workers I criticize collectively. It's those who take advantage and the unions and politicians that not only permit but encourage it.

Translation: "I got mine."

What are you going to say when Republicans come after YOUR pension and social security and Medicare?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by mayorhaggar

Translation: "I got mine."

What are you going to say when Republicans come after YOUR pension and social security and Medicare?

Translation: "I dun't read an' unnerstand too good."

Let me lead you through this MOD CUT. I am in favor of reasonable pensions funded, in part, by the eventual recipients. I am not in favor of overly munificent "fortunes" for anyone as a result of public service and to the detriment of the public good. Capice? MOD CUT

Parties be damned. I didn't ever mention them. MOD CUT

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by jeffredo

... I will say considering the source (Fox News) I wouldn't make up my mind without reading about it from a less biased news agency as well. ...

The San Jose Leftist Mercury News has never been accused of right-leaning editorials, but here's what even their far-left-of-center editorial board has to say about this and other bills:

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_18422062