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Old 08-31-2011, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, CA
1,626 posts, read 3,993,190 times
Reputation: 741

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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
How does one meaningfully compare wine prices?
I don't think you can since taste is subjective but anyone who's been to France can tell you for a given price French wine is much better. It's hard to get a decent bottle of wine for under $10 in the US. The cheese in France is amazingly good and cheap too.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar42 View Post
I don't think you can since taste is subjective but anyone who's been to France can tell you for a given price French wine is much better. It's hard to get a decent bottle of wine for under $10 in the US.
I've been to France and know about wine and I can't tell you this.

I get decent wine for under $10 all the time. Every study on wine shows price is almost entirely uncorrelated with taste preferences when people aren't aware of the price. Indeed, the vast majority of wine drinkers can't even tell the different varieties from each other if they are blind-folded!

Even the supposed experts are inconsistent and can't pick a $10 bottle from a $100 bottle...
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:11 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,248,742 times
Reputation: 9001
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I'm guessing you haven't had to lift a finger in your life....A person that is A+ certified sits on their butt and does basic and easy work, on the other hand the farm worker is going to do back breaking work....the average American wouldn't even get through the work day...
You shouldn't guess things. I never said that I did it genius.

My point was, that skilled jobs pay more than unskilled jobs. It has little to do with the amount of physical effort. It's more in line with training. An MCSE pays even more than A+ and it's not physically demanding either, yet it pays way more than someone who sweeps floors and changes trashcans and cleans toilets.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
My point was, that skilled jobs pay more than unskilled jobs.
Yes, that is your point, and as a general statement its wrong. Wages aren't based on the amount of hours it took someone to get the underlying skill, instead they are based on the supply/demand characteristics of the labor pool. If the labor market is oversupplied with people that can do X then X is going to derive a low wage regardless of how long it takes to learn X.

Anyhow, farming work is difficult as a result it shouldn't be surprising that the wages are higher and/or comparable to a job gained with some cheap certificate that involves a lot of sitting on ones rear...
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,248,742 times
Reputation: 9001
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Yes, that is your point, and as a general statement its wrong. Wages aren't based on the amount of hours it took someone to get the underlying skill, instead they are based on the supply/demand characteristics of the labor pool. If the labor market is oversupplied with people that can do X then X is going to derive a low wage regardless of how long it takes to learn X.

Anyhow, farming work is difficult as a result it shouldn't be surprising that the wages are higher and/or comparable to a job gained with some cheap certificate that involves a lot of sitting on ones rear...
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; Can you provide me with some info that proves these workers in the fields get paid the amount claimed? I was only disputing the claim that was made, it seem to hit a nerve with you so please enlighten me.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; Can you provide me with some info that proves these workers in the fields get paid the amount claimed? I was only disputing the claim that was made, it seem to hit a nerve with you so please enlighten me.
I made no claim as to how much the workers get paid, instead, I claimed that your suggestion that a "skilled" job is going to pay more than a "unskilled" job is not, in general, an accurate statement. I provided an explanation for why its not accurate....
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:40 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,248,742 times
Reputation: 9001
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I made no claim as to how much the workers get paid, instead, I claimed that your suggestion that a "skilled" job is going to pay more than a "unskilled" job is not, in general, an accurate statement. I provided an explanation for why its not accurate....
Quote:
farming work is difficult as a result it shouldn't be surprising that the wages are higher
Higher than what then?
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:44 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,624,497 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Somehow I doubt very seriously that field workers are paid 15hr. If that were the case they'd all be American. A person who's A+ certified to fox computers often makes less than that. In San Diego, bus drivers start at less than that.

I had a friend who was a federal wildland firefighter too. Back in the late 90's he made enough to buy a new Explorer and pay it off in less than a year he made so much.
You may doubt, after all, America is a free country. Wages are beginning to rise because of the shortage of labor induced by a certain portion of the political spectrum, that will reflect in the prices paid at the market.

Your friend who was a Federal Wildland Firefighter made the money on hours worked, overtime and hazard pay. There is no job I know of where a relatively unskilled worker can make more money in a season.

I worked many 20-40 hour shifts. The stats are sound and cannot be argued, the GS scale insures that. My record was on a fire up around Modjeska Canyon, and Trabuco Canyon, we worked 40 hours straight, came off the line got to eat and sleep for four hours, the fire blew up and we were out for another 40 hours. Those are called Hotshot Shifts.

I worked fire all summer and skied all winter, my skiing was supported by my fire income, not a bad lifestyle until children come along.
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:43 AM
 
Location: San Diego
50,056 posts, read 46,553,810 times
Reputation: 33893
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I've been to France and know about wine and I can't tell you this.

I get decent wine for under $10 all the time. Every study on wine shows price is almost entirely uncorrelated with taste preferences when people aren't aware of the price. Indeed, the vast majority of wine drinkers can't even tell the different varieties from each other if they are blind-folded!

Even the supposed experts are inconsistent and can't pick a $10 bottle from a $100 bottle...
'Two-Buck Chuck' Snags Top Wine Prize : NPR

I get a kick out of that one!
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: San Diego
50,056 posts, read 46,553,810 times
Reputation: 33893
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Couple of thoughts, piece work often gets the worker around $25 an hour
Average wage in the fields, about $15 an hour, roughly the same as the Federal Firefighters working that fire up by El Portal and Yosemite.

Not a bag of grapes, a bottle of wine. We find wine prices in CA about double that in France.

Now, if the illegals are carted off without a replacement program that nearly $40 billion dollar industry will crash, the ripples out from it, whether car dealerships or tractor dealerships or supermarkets etc will make the current recession look like boom times.

Now there are those who say, well, just mechanize. Yep, the 1970's due to the costs engendered by UFWOC there was intense state research into mechanization.
Pretty much all crops that can be machine harvested are.
And the same sector of the political spectrum that wants to get rid of the illegals without any ideas about replacement workers, also don't want to fund the state research required for further mechanization. Hobson's choice.
Are you admitting to using illegal workers?
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