California Dream Act? Your kidding me right? (Sacramento: law, legal)

[jkbatca]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Land belongs to those who hold it, it would have been helpful to read my last sentence.

So give it a shot, see if you can build a house on my land.

Besides, I do recognize borders based on historical precedent, which is why I said the US invasion and occupation of half of the United States of Mexico was illegal.

No but wait a minute, the fact that you got that land was on the premise that the US got that land in the first place and built the legal infrastructure for you or your family to acquire that land. Since you apparently don't recognize the U.S. precedent to that land, then all bets to the claims to that land are void along with it.

You cannot take both sides of the fence here.

[jkbatca]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Because your series of questions with answers already given was idiotic. You basically had a conversation with yourself then expected me to respond

You claim it was idiotic because it pointed out the fallacy of your original argument. How convenient of you to label it idiotic.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jkbatca

You claim it was idiotic because it pointed out the fallacy of your original argument. How convenient of you to label it idiotic.

MOD CUT, I never said I don't use anything that can be cracked. I'm on this computer right? That should be your first clue. So your question was flawed because that fact should have been abundantly obvious. I'm not going to go into how I do all my financial transactions.

Technology gets cracked all the time in very ingenious ways. Anyone who gets news knows that. They will come up with a card that eventually will no longer be fool proof. That was the point. Funny how you appear to be the only one confused by that.

[jkbatca]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

MOD CUT, I never said I don't use anything that can be cracked. I'm on this computer right? That should be your first clue. So your question was flawed because that fact should have been abundantly obvious. I'm not going to go into how I do all my financial transactions.

Technology gets cracked all the time in very ingenious ways. Anyone who gets news knows that. They will come up with a card that eventually will no longer be fool proof. That was the point. Funny how you appear to be the only one confused by that.

Let me rephrase it so you can understand. Obviously no security is 100% foolproof, which was your original assertion. However, unlike your original assertion, there are security systems with enough integrity such that we can use it with sufficient confidence. Just like we can make drivers licenses with enough integrity so we can use it with a small amount of false positives and just like we can use on-line banking with enough confidence, we can make an employer ID system with enough integrity to use that for employment. So your original assertion of "anything can be cracked so why make an employer ID system in the first place" is stupid and I've sufficiently explained why it is so.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jkbatca

Let me rephrase it so you can understand. Obviously no security is 100% foolproof, which was your original assertion. However, unlike your original assertion, there are security systems with enough integrity such that we can use it with sufficient confidence. Just like we can make drivers licenses with enough integrity so we can use it with a small amount of false positives, we can make an employer ID system with enough integrity to use that for employment. So your original assertion of "anything can be cracked so why make an employer ID system in the first place" is stupid and I've sufficiently explained why it is so.

Putting words in my posts I see

[jkbatca]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Putting words in my posts I see

Then what was the point of your post below if you were arguing against an ID system? If you weren't arguing against it, what was the point at all?

Originally Posted by Don9
Actually it would not be hard. You start by issuing all US citizens a ID card that can't be duplicated. Then you cut-off all public assistance to people who are not legal citizens. Then you enforce the laws on the books to prevent illegal immigration including jail time to employers who employ people who do not possess the new ID card. After a period of time, the illegals will stop coming and the ones here will return home if they don't get a free ride.

You do realize that there is no such thing as something that can't be duplicated and/or cracked right?

[jeffredo]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

And, if they get financial aid, they get it after all citizens who have requested financial aid have received theirs.

I've read the second portion of the California Dream Act and no where does it say illegal/undocumented students will wait until all citizens have received their full financial aid package. It appears it puts them on the same footing as citizens for Cal Grants if they graduate from a California high school. It will also let them qualify for Community College fee waivers if their family incomes are low enough (which I'm sure many are). Given the competition for classes in the community college system is due to budget cuts it does stick in my throat a bit. I really don't want anything codified that would give illegal aliens a sense of legitimacy from any government institution - especially when it comes with a taxpayer funded price tag.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jkbatca

Then what was the point of your post below if you were arguing against an ID system? If you weren't arguing against it, what was the point at all?

You do realize that there is no such thing as something that can't be duplicated and/or cracked right?

Maybe I was just telling Don9 that. Perhaps he may have thought (I don't know for sure) that it was an end all.

[jkbatca]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Maybe I was just telling Don9 that. Perhaps he may have thought (I don't know for sure) that it was an end all.

IMHO, it's better than doing nothing and a system can be designed with sufficient integrity, as witnessed by other credential systems. Same thing as with licenses, if bogus licenses are created, there has to be a process in place to recognize and deal with it (2 factor systems, etc). Same with an employer system, that's all I"m sayin'

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jkbatca

IMHO, it's better than doing nothing and a system can be designed with sufficient integrity, as witnessed by other credential systems. Same thing as with licenses, if bogus licenses are created, there has to be a process in place to recognize and deal with it (2 factor systems, etc).

Again, I never said whether they should or shouldn't be created. There's just a certain way I have to communicate with Don9 as our interactions are usually adversarial. He knows I wasn't attacking him like I usually do.