Families Packing Up and Leaving California (Los Angeles, Huntington Beach: standard of living, price, dangerous)

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

The truly "sorry" thing is that what you list is what means freedom to you. There are certainly a lot of grave markers for those to whom freedom meant a lot more.


Yes, I've got mine ... it ain't much, and I got it the hard way ... and yet I am happy to have what I do? Yes.

As for your chanting gloom and doom: folks like you are unhappy and chant about it because you want an awful lot more than is needed for happiness ... and you chant from a sense of entitlement that is unearned. You haven't escaped any oppression after years of pain and sacrifice and struggle and loss. You haven't crossed oceans in the holds of filthy ships to serve as slaves or even to be penniless farmers clearing hard-scrabble land with a mule. You haven't crossed prairies in a wagon with a young family, fighting disease and hostiles and rattlesnakes. You haven't built railroads, laying track for pennies a day. You haven't fought wars to defend your shores. I could go on. All you have done is been born into birthright citizenship and raised in the land of the greatest opportunities in the history of this world. Can't afford a 4,000 sq. ft. home on the California coast on your measly $100,000 + combined income? Did big bad Brownie take it away from you? You're breakin' my heart kid.

I'm not a kid. And as for your scenario of those that truly earned freedom - I seriously doubt any of that applied to you either. If those things all mean you've earned what you have, then you haven't. So I'm not sure what your point it.

As for a sense of entitlement? Hardly. I've never been on the dole, never taken a penny of govt money except for 4 months of unemployment (which I paid into), and never felt anyone owed me anything. I left home at 17, and have earned everything I have myself ever since.

You think you know me and what makes me happy? Not even close. I actually have all I need to be happy. But I do see that if I am not diligent in keeping our govt at bay, that too may be taken from me.

And I am truly sorry for you, if you think that those creeping intrusions into our lives don't mean a lack of freedom.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

I'll tell you one thing I won't do about it -> leave the state throwing my hands up in the air. Wash my hands of the problem vs. finding constructive ways to deal it. Isn't that what this post is all about anyway? Cry Uncle and flee all one's supposed problems in CA to some other Shangri La where life is easier. A place where all jobs go to Americans citizens only with the higher pay one deserves and has come to expect, etc... If fleeing a problem is the true answer then we're are all in trouble. Is there any easy answer to this complex socio-economic problem like your politicians would like you to believe? Obviously no. Though they are great talking points to get elected. But bailing out certainly isn't the answer.

Derek

Please tell me exactly why I should have stayed and "tried". So that I can attend Tea Party rallies and be labeled an extremist? So that (former) good friends who are liberal suddenly accuse me of being a racist because NPR told them that only racists attend those events? So that I can vote and vote to save the state, and see the unions buy the elections, so they can reap the rewards?

It's called voting with your feet. Luckily, we still have the freedom to do that.

Tell me one constructive thing I could have done? California is beyond saving. I wasn't going to stick around and sink with it.

[lifelongMOgal]

Originally Posted by Boompa

Pray fer rain, have fun.

How will California fill the void left by this guy?

What is Aztlan, Raza, and MEChA

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by ringwise

...
And I am truly sorry for you, if you think that those creeping intrusions into our lives don't mean a lack of freedom.

IMO, Freedom is term thrown around way too losely, especially in light of the price some have paid to achieve it. And the kind which you refer is great until you infringe on someone else's in the name of your own personal freedoms. A basic example of this is letting your dogs cr@p all over your neighbors yard. That's freedom alright, but at whose expense? Poachers feel constrained by Fish and Game and they are. Is this limiting of personal freedoms always a bad thing? Another example is smoking in restaurants. I used to hate breathing all that nasty second hand smoke. So how far do we take it? Well of course there has to be a balance. And yes, sometimes CA goes overboard with it. But in most cases there is a reason behind it which usually impact someone else. Pesonally I'm glad talking on cell phones while driving is banned in CA. Many deaths have occured because of this. And in CO, the state we left, it is still legal.

Bottom line is its not always as easy as you seem to imply as if being truly free means no laws or gov't intervention. That is not freedom but rather anarchy. Good law exists to ensure everyone's freedoms are mutually respected and upheld. So if you want to text or talk on your cell while driving or smoke wherever you please I'm sure there is another state which will better accommodate you.

Derek

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by ringwise

I'm not a kid. And as for your scenario of those that truly earned freedom - I seriously doubt any of that applied to you either. If those things all mean you've earned what you have, then you haven't. So I'm not sure what your point it.

As for a sense of entitlement? Hardly. I've never been on the dole, never taken a penny of govt money except for 4 months of unemployment (which I paid into), and never felt anyone owed me anything. I left home at 17, and have earned everything I have myself ever since.

You think you know me and what makes me happy? Not even close. I actually have all I need to be happy. But I do see that if I am not diligent in keeping our govt at bay, that too may be taken from me.

And I am truly sorry for you, if you think that those creeping intrusions into our lives don't mean a lack of freedom.

I have fought war on foreign shores at the request of our country -- and I volunteered to do so -- although I do admit, in retrospect, it certainly turned out not to be related to our freedom after all. And therein lies yet another level of sacrifice. Not only did I take personal and permanent damage on three occasions overseas, but I have unjustifiable blood of others on my hands. And if you think that's not sacrifice, you are as empty as you seem in your posts.

The fact you have never been on the dole is meaningless -- other than you have been more fortunate than those that have. Another example of the great opportunities you were born into.

I know by what you write that you are not happy with whatever you have. You say you have not been on the dole -- meaning you have been able to maintain employment ... that in itself is a good foundation for happiness ... and yet you whine about intrusions on your freedoms to choose "paper or plastic" (to help our environment for the good of all), or which kind of light bulb to burn (to best utilize electricity for the broader use and benefit of all). You are clearly self-absorbed, and so in meaningless minutiae.

I have held the dying as they drew their last breath longing for real freedom. Your protests are immeasurably shallower than their last raspings for air.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by ringwise

Please tell me exactly why I should have stayed and "tried". So that I can attend Tea Party rallies and be labeled an extremist? So that (former) good friends who are liberal suddenly accuse me of being a racist because NPR told them that only racists attend those events? So that I can vote and vote to save the state, and see the unions buy the elections, so they can reap the rewards?

It's called voting with your feet. Luckily, we still have the freedom to do that.

Tell me one constructive thing I could have done? California is beyond saving. I wasn't going to stick around and sink with it.

With your perspective of CA that is the best thing you could have done, seriously. And for that I congratulate you. For those who see a place as hopeless there is nothing positive left for them to contribute. At that point its time to go. Life's too short, really. Why be miserable and make others around you miserable as well. CA is not for everyone, thank goodness. We already have too many for whom it is. So enjoy your new environment fully wherever it is. Hopefully there you can contribute something positive.

Derek

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by majoun

Los Angeles became a sanctuary city with Special Order 40 which was issued by Daryl Gates. Gates was not exactly a liberal.

San Francisco became a sanctuary city under Feinstein who is not a "progressive liberal" by any means, at the bequest of the SFPD. Law enforcement agencies in CA have been the biggest backers of sanctuary city status traditionally. Are they "socialists"?

Wrong ... as usual.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

You mean you and Curmudgeon are going to be neighbors in Missouri?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. But more to the point, I understand where you are coming from. Though I am more optimistic for CA and America in general. For one I don't think all liberals are trying to destroy our state or nation. Even though I didn't vote for ole' moonbean and disagree with some of his approaches he is still trying to work at restoring our state, at least in part. He's had to make some tough choices and spending cuts which weren't popular with his own party. I give him credit for that.

I also know a lot of retired folks now living happily here in CA including some in our own family. Could they live higher on the hog in another state? Absolutely! Would that mean a better quality of life for them? No, simply because they want to remain closest to their kids and grandkids. And that's more important for them. However that being said I've got quite a few years before I retire, so who knows? Maybe I'll decide to live in another state where my retirement dollar stretches more. Much will depend on the whereabouts of my exended family at that time I suspect. I've got my eye on Brookings, OR. Though I doubt our children would ever be able to live anywhere near there since its mostly a retirement community with very few opportunities for young ppl = no jobs to speak of.

Derek

Missouri has some great locations ... like the Ozarks

My extended family members are spread all over the country. Many have already left California. My oldest with his family is still here and that is an issue in our decision but then they have also been talking about leaving California some day. My other son is still a concern for us but we are not moving tomorrow so time will tell.

I have been looking for the right place for us. The current contender is in or near Cookeville Tennessee. Lots of rivers and lakes with a high standard of living for a low price tag. But I might actually have to figure out how to winterize my boats

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Don, if you look at the history of raising taxes in the last 60 years, you'll find that a lot of Republican presidents like Ronald Reagan, raised taxes to meet the budget deficit. When our country was at war, Americans paid the sacrifice by paying higher taxes. That was a patriotic thing to do back then.

What we do have is wasteful and inefficient spending by the Democrats. This is no news.

I was referring specifically to California.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

What is Aztlan, Raza, and MEChA

Tony Villar aka Antonio Villaraigosa is a well known MEChA.


Antonio Villaraigosa (then, Tony Villar) leading a protest to include the Communist organization "Committee to Free Los Tres" on the Steering Committee of the Chicano Studies Center. UCLA campus, May 23, 1974.

Antonio Villar(aigosa) – UCLA MEChista