California Dream Act Signed By Jerry Brown: Second Bill Passes (Los Angeles: real estate, income tax)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

It appears to me that this is enacted in order to win the votes of future Californians.

Oh yes, it has nothing to do with creating a more educated population and giving people more opportunities, after all without access to education the kids would all just go back to Mexico right?

Immigration is handled federally, states like California with high numbers of illegal residents can either try to give these people as many opportunities as possible or let them slide into poverty and deal with the problems latter. Cost wise, there is little reason to believe that providing educational benefits is more expensive to tax payers...

The people that are treating this ideological, namely that the illegals "broke the law" and shouldn't get anything, etc remind me of Javert....

[KickAssArmyChick]

Originally Posted by user_id

Oh yes, it has nothing to do with creating a more educated population and giving people more opportunities, after all without access to education the kids would all just go back to Mexico right?

Immigration is handled federally, states like California with high numbers of illegal residents can either try to give these people as many opportunities as possible or let them slide into poverty and deal with the problems latter. Cost wise, there is little reason to believe that providing educational benefits is more expensive to tax payers...

So an illegal who works under the table and claim to have no income whatsoever and gets a free ride through college is not a big deal?

Welfare Fraud Stories

April 2007 – Los Angeles County
Through their citizen children, illegal immigrants in Los Angeles County collect $420 million annually in welfare and food stamps, according to a report requested by 5th District County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich. The Los Angeles County Department of Public Social Services told the supervisor that payments to illegal immigrants' children amount to approximately 24% of the county's combined CalWORKS and food stamps budget. According to Antonovich's office, illegal immigrants annually cost the county $360 million in health care and $220 million in incarceration costs.


That is in LA county ALONE. One county.

Illegals will ALWAYS be a drain. No matter what. Millions of the illegals in this country don't have plans to go to college. It is just how it is. I have lived in South America and education is not a priority. It is true.

And by giving these folks state funded taxpayer benefits you are telling every single foreigner abroad that it is OKAY to come here illegally because you will be rewarded.

Your state is BROKE. Your governor has cut funding to programs that benefit the elderly and Veterans YET he is giving illegals a free ride. Your hospitals are going bankrupt because illegals will use the ER and never pay a darn bill.

How is giving them a free ride going to help? It makes no sense.


Wake up.

[scottfreez]

Originally Posted by user_id

You are making a very generic requests for "support" from the people that aren't up in arms over this bill, while making no such requests from anybody else. Its hard to imagine that you are seriously trying to get to the bottom of matters, but the best way to do that is to actually read the details.

Now, in terms of wasting your bandwidth, may I suggest adding me to your ignore list? My comments will no longer waste your bandwidth, indeed, you can entirely insulate yourself from everyone with differing views.

Wow! Talk about knee jerk!

I stated clearly that I did indeed read the details about the bill.

Just because I don't go "up in arms" doesn't mean that I don't have as much an understanding of the matter as you do. You're free to roll your own way.

If I choose to ignore you it will not be because I disagree with your views but because I think you are not fit for consumption. And you'll never know about it either.

[scottfreez]

Originally Posted by user_id

Oh yes, it has nothing to do with creating a more educated population and giving people more opportunities, after all without access to education the kids would all just go back to Mexico right?

Immigration is handled federally, states like California with high numbers of illegal residents can either try to give these people as many opportunities as possible or let them slide into poverty and deal with the problems latter. Cost wise, there is little reason to believe that providing educational benefits is more expensive to tax payers...

The people that are treating this ideological, namely that the illegals "broke the law" and shouldn't get anything, etc remind me of Javert....

Well technically they ARE breaking bona-fide laws.

Believe it or not I actually agree with you that underprivileged Mexicans deserve an education. But not at the expense and detriment to Americans in California, not while horrific problems in Mexico that the US ought to have at least some positive influence over go completely unchecked. This seems to be the wrong way to fix that problem.

And finally, I am not so naive to think the purpose of the bill is just about creating a more educated population and not firstly winning the votes of the fastest growing demographic in the country.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

And finally, I am not so naive to think the purpose of the bill is just about creating a more educated population and not firstly winning the votes of the fastest growing demographic in the country.

I think user_id is that naive

[user_id]

Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick

So an illegal who works under the table and claim to have no income whatsoever and gets a free ride through college is not a big deal?

Firstly working under the table only prevents you from paying income tax, you still have to pay all the other taxes in the state. Secondly, most illegal workers are using some form of fake docs so they are paying all taxes. Thirdly, low income folks in California pay no or very little income tax in the first place so this isn't even a real issue. Fourthly you are ignoring the issue of future tax revenue, education is an investment..one that pays dividends in the future.

Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick

That is in LA county ALONE. One county.

C'mon....you're not even trying to be honest. Not only is Los Angeles county, by far, the largest county in the state its also has the largest Hispanic populations. That is, this one county is no sense representative of other counties and the costs spent in LA county likely make up around 40~50% of the total costs (for illegals) in California.

Originally Posted by KickAssArmyChick

Illegals will ALWAYS be a drain. No matter what.

The US food industry would collapse without illegal labor, these people aren't coming here for welfare benefits they are coming here to work and they work hard. Hardly a drain on the nation, indeed, its hard to see how anything would get done in this country without immigrants (legal or illegal).

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by user_id

Secondly, most illegal workers are using some form of fake docs so they are paying all taxes.

By George ... creating false ID is against California laws ... collecting public assistance using a fake ID is a crime ... these people are criminals many times over at the federal, state and local level.

[mollymonk]

Originally Posted by Don9

California was not going to be bailed out anyway. So Brown signed a bill authorizing illegals to receive tax payer funded grants at a time when the state is in a financial crisis and cutting budgets to needed state programs.

Maybe not, but who knows what the Federal government might do in the future? I don't trust the government period! It doesn't matter anyway for the taxpaying citizens, we're being screwed either way by both the State and Federal government, paying benefits for illegals just makes things worse in this economy... They are never going to stop the flood of illegals into this country.

[scottfreez]

Userid - You're not presenting any of your statements as believable or convincing in a factual sense.

You don't know that the food industry would "collapse" without illegal aliens working it.

Show me proof that "most illegals are using fake docs and paying all taxes" come on....

And aren't the same illegals to whom we are giving an education restricted from legally working anyway? How could they possibly constitute an investment in the eyes of the people who are "investing" the money?

[KC6ZLV]

Originally Posted by user_id

Firstly working under the table only prevents you from paying income tax, you still have to pay all the other taxes in the state. Secondly, most illegal workers are using some form of fake docs so they are paying all taxes. Thirdly, low income folks in California pay no or very little income tax in the first place so this isn't even a real issue. Fourthly you are ignoring the issue of future tax revenue, education is an investment..one that pays dividends in the future.

The employer isn't paying payroll taxes and the illegal immigrant employee isn't paying income tax.

That would be the total of the sales tax rate, utility taxes (quite a few areas don't have utility taxes) and vehicle license fees. This doesn't come anywhere close to covering the total cost of illegal immigrants.

C'mon....you're not even trying to be honest. Not only is Los Angeles county, by far, the largest county in the state its also has the largest Hispanic populations. That is, this one county is no sense representative of other counties and the costs spent in LA county likely make up around 40~50% of the total costs (for illegals) in California.

"Last year [2009], welfare and food stamp issuances totaled nearly $570 million, an amount projected to exceed $600 million this year. In addition, county taxpayers spend $550 million in public safety -- mostly for jail costs -- and nearly $500 million for healthcare for illegal immigrants, Antonovich said." Source:
Rise in public benefits to children of illegal immigrants in L.A. County has supervisor 'very concerned' - latimes.com

That is $1.6 billion for Los Angeles County alone. If LA accounts for 50% of the total costs for illegal immigrants it comes out to about $3.2 billion for the state.

The US food industry would collapse without illegal labor, these people aren't coming here for welfare benefits they are coming here to work and they work hard. Hardly a drain on the nation, indeed, its hard to see how anything would get done in this country without immigrants (legal or illegal).

The food industry would adapt. If you don't think they aren't coming here for the benefits, what do you think the motivation for Pregnant Mexicans the anchor-baby phenomenon) to run across the border to have a child in the US is all about?