California Dream Act Signed By Jerry Brown: Second Bill Passes (San Francisco: closing, tax)

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Beg to differ. This has been a problem in the area for years. Google mcgonigle canyon.

Well, you piqued my curiosity ... so I Googled and found one article in particular to be pretty comprehensive in its coverage of the area / issue:
The not-so-great outdoors | The San Diego Union-Tribune
At its height (before the economic collapse / recession) this was quite a problem you point at! But, as you can read in the article, this is not an agricultural migrant worker camp ... it represented about 25% of San Diego County's homeless ... which does include some agricultural workers, but most of those were being displaced by [farms] disappearing to development.

Up north in Washington's Yakima Valley, other eastern WA fruit regions, western WA's vegetable-growing Skagit Valley and Whatcom County's berry-bonanza fields, workers all live in real housing integrated into the communities at large ... housing is pretty much plentiful and affordable and quite livable. The workers Do still rotate fields and orchards, camping at times ... but less and less of the camping is happening seems like every year. Berry picking in the Whatcom County fields has long been a high school student summer job, as well as immigrant ... the raspberry harvest up here accounts for 6,000 temporary jobs alone ... the work is very hard but pays very well ... so well that the students use it for launching their college ... I've forgotten the scale, but my youngest son's friends said they made out like bandits years back. There was a cry for reform from some quarters because the work was considered so hard ... but the high schoolers raised a ruckus not wanting to change the bonanza .... worth it to them!

Ditto to highnlite's observation about the health requirements in the fields ... porta-potty business is big business up here ... in fact, a guy I am friendly with moved to Whatcom County, WA from San Diego to go into the septic pumping and porti-potty business ... he was a banker in San Diego. Makes better money now, he says. True story.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

So, consider this, The US has 5% of the world's people and consumes 40% of the worlds resources.

How long do you think that can continue?

Don't you think some other countries might want to level this particular playing field?

Standard of Living is way over rated, Quality of Living is far more important.

How much of a reduction in your standard of living & quality of living are you willing to accept to make them better in other countries?

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Do you read stuff and then decide it says what you want it to say? Are you completely ignorant of market conditions? Let's play your game. Farmer A. Jose Estrada, decides from reading what you wrote that he needs to up his pay scale. Well, it won't work because Farmer A. Jose Estrada does not hire anyone, they come from a labor contractor. But heck, let us say that the Labor Contractor, Pedro Padilla decides that he is going to up his wages, so he tells Jose Estrada that a crew of 100 for a week will cost him 50% more than last week, and 50% more than what every other farmer in the valley is paying.. Oh Duh......

You may be a socialist, but most farmers are capitalists, they realize that the market sets wages.

You are advocating government intervention, ie socialism, or a cartel of farmers to fix prices.

Oh Duh..

As an American I am advocating that the govt. enforce immigration laws and stops letting enterprising farmers take advantage of illegal immigrants to boost their profit margins and throw the social costs on the rest of tax payers... Oh yeah, that's some amazing govt. intervention/socialism if I ever saw it ... And don't talk to me about market prices, you intentional use illegal labor because it is below the market price of what you will have to pay an American ..

And there you go again yappin your mouth about me being from highschool ..
I am a long time graduate from Carnegie Mellon University w/ a Masters degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering ..

The building I am standing in front of is the University Center :



Keep making yourself look like a fool

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

How much of a reduction in your standard of living & quality of living are you willing to accept to make them better in other countries?

How much of a pig are you willing to be in driving an unsustainable consumer culture frenzy that will ultimately reduce everyone everywhere to extinction? Think that's a dramatic statement? Easter Island redux. Define "quality of life" ... anything like your earlier definition of "human value"?

[Curmudgeon]

Ya might as well give it up, YTG. Haven't you figured out yet that American-hating, illegal immigrant-loving liberals have combined social and mental disorders. You'd get further arguing with a brick wall.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

How much of a pig are you willing to be in driving an unsustainable consumer culture frenzy that will ultimately reduce everyone everywhere to extinction? Think that's a dramatic statement? Easter Island redux. Define "quality of life" ... anything like your earlier definition of "human value"?

More money doesn't force anyone to go out and buy junk...
Money is a resource.. How you use it is a personal decision.
In a great many ways, America subsidizes the world's prices through our consumption habits. W/o us consuming and paying the price we paid, in the currency we paid, Medicine prices for instance would go up 80-130% for some poor countries ... So, before you start yappin about how some people decide to spend their money insatiably on b.s and why that should result in others not having the potential to make good money and use it on basic necessities and use the rest to improve other's quality of life around the world, do yourself a favor and look at the bigger picture...

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Ya might as well give it up, YTG. Haven't you figured out yet that American-hating, illegal immigrant-loving liberals have combined social and mental disorders. You'd get further arguing with a brick wall.

Agreed.. I'm done with the thread. To the individual who asked me to come back and post more .. I'm sorry .. but what Curmy says is right and this is a waste of time

[Coldjensens]

Some tie ago (more than 5 years) they passed a bill saying that illegal immigrants could get in state tuition rates. The same year someone sponsored a bill to offer in state tuition rates to all returning gulf war veterans. It got shot down. "We cannot afford this"

That has to be my favorite legislative B.S. of all time. Maybe there are better ones, I do not know of them.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by scottfreez

Figures you would insinuate that I have an ethnic hatred of Mexicans...

Yes, figures since its rather obvious....

Originally Posted by scottfreez

I am an advocate of Americans getting the benefit of American tax dollars and American education systems FIRST, irregardless of their ethnic background.

And naturally you are ignoring all the key issues here, in particular that there are a lot of people in California that, if it was up to California would be legal but they aren't because a broken federal immigration system.

There are millions of young illegals in the US that were brought here as kids and grew up here, but can't become legal residents because a broken immigration system. Your solution to this seems to be right out of Nazi Germany, namely just to inhumanely deport them all...and/or allow the formation of huge immigrant ghettos.

California is just doing what it can to band-aide a broken federal immigration system.

Originally Posted by scottfreez

How about enforcing limits, and requiring certain level of educational attainment before permitting immigration?

Or how about not? How about we keep the oppressive immigration policies in Europe? The Statue of Liberty has this on it:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

Not:

"Give me your highly educated, your rich...."

Originally Posted by scottfreez

that illegal immigrants are put to backbreaking work like oxen. Oh, that's perfectly acceptable to you, our resident humanitarian..

And these people come here willing because the work and the conditions here are actually better than their home country.... But there is a good deal of abuse and the solution to that is to allow them to come here to work legally.....

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

More money doesn't force anyone to go out and buy junk...
Money is a resource.. How you use it is a personal decision.

Correct ... and yet what do we see people generally do with their money? Correct: mostly junk.

Originally Posted by yeahthatguy

In a great many ways, America subsidizes the world's prices through our consumption habits. W/o us consuming and paying the price we paid, in the currency we paid, Medicine prices for instance would go up 80-130% for some poor countries ... So, before you start yappin about how some people decide to spend their money insatiably on b.s and why that should result in others not having the potential to make good money and use it on basic necessities and use the rest to improve other's quality of life around the world, do yourself a favor and look at the bigger picture...

Well, speaking of "the bigger picture", uh, you missed it completely ... consumption happens: food and a variety of necessities ... Thorstein Veblen was among the first to recognize the need for social balance with regard to consumption and economics ... but as an economic model, consumerism, calling for endless, wasteful, material consumption, is entirely unsustainable ... a Ponzi scheme, literally ... intentionally fraudulent and promoted with no value intent other than amassing personal wealth at any cost ...

"Earnest Elmo Calkins noted to fellow advertising executives in 1932 that "consumer engineering must see to it that we use up the kind of goods we now merely use", while the domestic theorist Christine Frederick observed in 1929 that "the way to break the vicious deadlock of a low standard of living is to spend freely, and even waste creatively".

... which cost, ultimately, will destroy culture. As we live it, the religion of growth is a prime definition of cancer ... to which I, once again, quote Edward Abbey: "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Do humanity a favor: look at the bigger picture, kid.