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Old 01-03-2012, 12:47 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,614,969 times
Reputation: 1552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
For those of you who think California is Sodom and Gomorrah:
62 paved roads outta here (as Highnlite has pointed out many times).

Nah, I'm not homosexual ... my gay friends refer to me as "hopelessly hetero" ... but clear as can be history shows that homosexuality has been around since forever ... quite out in the accepted open back in Greece and Rome in the "Golden Ages" of philosophy and the advance of art and civilization. Get used to it. The church tried to suppress for a few hundred years and that became a cultural smokescreen. Sure looks to me like those priests wanted it all behind their own closed doors ... Selfish characters in robes and outrageous costumes. If one didn't know better (?) one might think the church was the originator of "drag" ... no?
That has to be the most ignorant paragraph I have read in months. Yes, homosexuality has been around forever just like every other moral disorder. Funny how liberals suddenly become traditionalists when they think it furthers their cause. But sodomy has been punished or censured by every civilization. Even among the decadent Greeks homosexuality was recognized as a tolerated vice, and only among the upper classes. Plato: “When male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female.”

The Church did not suppress the vice for "a few hundred years", but has consistently opposed it from the very beginning. There have been periods of lax discipline in the Church, when homosexuals were admitted to holy orders against the Church's own long-standing rules, and the consequences have always been disastrous. The scandals of the late 20th century were caused precisely by the admission of large numbers of homosexuals to the priesthood in violation of canon law. More than 80% of the victims were male.

Still, only 4% of priests serving from 1950-2002 were accused of sexual abuse, and approximately 15% of these accusations are unsubstantiated. Anti-Catholic hotheads like you tend to throw wild accusations around rather promiscuously. Let's compare this with teachers during the same era, shall we?

In 1991, 17.7 percent of males and 82.2 percent of females who had graduated from high school reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. In a 2003 study, 9.6 percent of all school children reported being the victims of sexual misconduct on the part of teachers. Other studies show up to 50 percent of students are sexually victimized or harassed by educators. Most of the available data is regional: in a 1989 survey of North Carolina high school graduates, fully 13.5% of those responding reported sexual intercourse with a teacher. Etc. Read more of these sordid details for yourself.

Those are astounding numbers and the Catholic Church is squeaky clean by comparison. The percentage of public school teachers accused of sexual abuse is unknown because, unlike the Catholic Church today, most schools still do not disclose accusations or publicly act upon them. But the evidence strongly suggests that the incidence of child sexual abuse by school teachers is anywhere from 10 to 100 times more prevalent than among Catholic priests.

I probably shouldn't have taken your bait, Nullgeo, knowing that what you really wanted was to change the subject so as not to discuss the obvious injustice of forcing a militant homosexualist agenda on all Californians.

Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 01-03-2012 at 01:06 PM..

 
Old 01-03-2012, 01:11 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,917,706 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
That has to be the most ignorant paragraph I have read in months. Yes, homosexuality has been around forever just like every other moral disorder. Funny how liberals suddenly become traditionalists when they think it furthers their cause. But sodomy has been punished or censured by every civilization. Even among the decadent Greeks homosexuality was recognized as a tolerated vice, and only among the upper classes. Plato: “When male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female.”

The Church did not suppress the vice for "a few hundred years", but has consistently opposed it from the very beginning. There have been periods of lax discipline in the Church, when homosexuals were admitted to holy orders against the Church's own long-standing rules, and the consequences have always been disastrous. The scandals of the late 20th century were caused precisely by the admission of large numbers of homosexuals to the priesthood in violation of canon law. More than 80% of the victims were male.

Still, only 4% of priests serving from 1950-2002 were accused of sexual abuse, and approximately 15% of these accusations are unsubstantiated. Anti-Catholic hotheads like you tend to throw wild accusations around rather promiscuously. Let's compare this with teachers during the same era, shall we?

In 1991, 17.7 percent of males and 82.2 percent of females who had graduated from high school reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. In a 2003 study, 9.6 percent of all school children reported being the victims of sexual misconduct on the part of teachers. Other studies show up to 50 percent of students are sexually victimized or harassed by educators. Most of the available data is regional: in a 1989 survey of North Carolina high school graduates, fully 13.5% of those responding reported sexual intercourse with a teacher. Etc. Read more of these sordid details for yourself.

Those are astounding numbers and the Catholic Church is squeaky clean by comparison. The percentage of public school teachers accused of sexual abuse is unknown because, unlike the Catholic Church today, most schools still do not disclose accusations or publicly act upon them. But the evidence strongly suggests that the incidence of child sexual abuse by school teachers is anywhere from 10 to 100 times more prevalent than among Catholic priests.

I probably shouldn't have taken your bait, Nullgeo, knowing that what you really wanted was to change the subject so as not to discuss the obvious injustice of forcing a militant homosexualist agenda on all Californians.
Hook, line, and sinker
And I still say the priestly robes are drag ...
(btw: don't like the school systems either)
 
Old 01-03-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,156 posts, read 5,573,221 times
Reputation: 3594
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
That has to be the most ignorant paragraph I have read in months. Yes, homosexuality has been around forever just like every other moral disorder. Funny how liberals suddenly become traditionalists when they think it furthers their cause. But sodomy has been punished or censured by every civilization. Even among the decadent Greeks homosexuality was recognized as a tolerated vice, and only among the upper classes. Plato: “When male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female.”

The Church did not suppress the vice for "a few hundred years", but has consistently opposed it from the very beginning. There have been periods of lax discipline in the Church, when homosexuals were admitted to holy orders against the Church's own long-standing rules, and the consequences have always been disastrous. The scandals of the late 20th century were caused precisely by the admission of large numbers of homosexuals to the priesthood in violation of canon law. More than 80% of the victims were male.

Still, only 4% of priests serving from 1950-2002 were accused of sexual abuse, and approximately 15% of these accusations are unsubstantiated. Anti-Catholic hotheads like you tend to throw wild accusations around rather promiscuously. Let's compare this with teachers during the same era, shall we?

In 1991, 17.7 percent of males and 82.2 percent of females who had graduated from high school reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. In a 2003 study, 9.6 percent of all school children reported being the victims of sexual misconduct on the part of teachers. Other studies show up to 50 percent of students are sexually victimized or harassed by educators. Most of the available data is regional: in a 1989 survey of North Carolina high school graduates, fully 13.5% of those responding reported sexual intercourse with a teacher. Etc. Read more of these sordid details for yourself.

Those are astounding numbers and the Catholic Church is squeaky clean by comparison. The percentage of public school teachers accused of sexual abuse is unknown because, unlike the Catholic Church today, most schools still do not disclose accusations or publicly act upon them. But the evidence strongly suggests that the incidence of child sexual abuse by school teachers is anywhere from 10 to 100 times more prevalent than among Catholic priests.

I probably shouldn't have taken your bait, Nullgeo, knowing that what you really wanted was to change the subject so as not to discuss the obvious injustice of forcing a militant homosexualist agenda on all Californians.

So its a choice?

Here's a happy thought: as a consequence of age and demographics, the percentage of people sharing your opinion is dying. Rapidly.

Here's another: the reason it's dying is not because of a "militant homosexualist agenda". Its because people like me don't give a damn what others do in private.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 01:41 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,156 posts, read 5,573,221 times
Reputation: 3594
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
That has to be the most ignorant paragraph I have read in months. Yes, homosexuality has been around forever just like every other moral disorder. Funny how liberals suddenly become traditionalists when they think it furthers their cause. But sodomy has been punished or censured by every civilization. Even among the decadent Greeks homosexuality was recognized as a tolerated vice, and only among the upper classes. Plato: “When male unites with female for procreation the pleasure experienced is held to be due to nature, but contrary to nature when male mates with male or female with female.”

The Church did not suppress the vice for "a few hundred years", but has consistently opposed it from the very beginning. There have been periods of lax discipline in the Church, when homosexuals were admitted to holy orders against the Church's own long-standing rules, and the consequences have always been disastrous. The scandals of the late 20th century were caused precisely by the admission of large numbers of homosexuals to the priesthood in violation of canon law. More than 80% of the victims were male.

Still, only 4% of priests serving from 1950-2002 were accused of sexual abuse, and approximately 15% of these accusations are unsubstantiated. Anti-Catholic hotheads like you tend to throw wild accusations around rather promiscuously. Let's compare this with teachers during the same era, shall we?

In 1991, 17.7 percent of males and 82.2 percent of females who had graduated from high school reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school. In a 2003 study, 9.6 percent of all school children reported being the victims of sexual misconduct on the part of teachers. Other studies show up to 50 percent of students are sexually victimized or harassed by educators. Most of the available data is regional: in a 1989 survey of North Carolina high school graduates, fully 13.5% of those responding reported sexual intercourse with a teacher. Etc. Read more of these sordid details for yourself.

Those are astounding numbers and the Catholic Church is squeaky clean by comparison. The percentage of public school teachers accused of sexual abuse is unknown because, unlike the Catholic Church today, most schools still do not disclose accusations or publicly act upon them. But the evidence strongly suggests that the incidence of child sexual abuse by school teachers is anywhere from 10 to 100 times more prevalent than among Catholic priests.

I probably shouldn't have taken your bait, Nullgeo, knowing that what you really wanted was to change the subject so as not to discuss the obvious injustice of forcing a militant homosexualist agenda on all Californians.
Next sentence. Our Founding Fathers WERE Liberals, if not outright radicals.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 03:52 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,614,969 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by nslander View Post
So its a choice?

Here's a happy thought: as a consequence of age and demographics, the percentage of people sharing your opinion is dying. Rapidly.

Here's another: the reason it's dying is not because of a "militant homosexualist agenda". Its because people like me don't give a damn what others do in private.
The act is always a choice: the inclination, in some cases, may not be.

It is decades of militant homosexualist activism that has effectively eroded morality to the point where people like you "don't give a damn what others do in private".

You should give a damn what others do in private. In fact, I'm pretty sure you do - you're just selective, like we all are, and for your own reasons have decided not to care about this particular issue. What people do in private changes who they are and impacts others. It affects their relations, loved ones, neighbors, and society. A man who enjoys torturing cats in private is that much more likely to be a horrible parent-friend-neighbor. No man is an island, etc.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,614,969 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by nslander View Post
Next sentence. Our Founding Fathers WERE Liberals, if not outright radicals.
What do the founding fathers have to do with this topic?

But since you brought them up, here's Thomas Jefferson's view:

"Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least."

Jefferson makes ME look like a liberal!

Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 01-03-2012 at 04:05 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,156 posts, read 5,573,221 times
Reputation: 3594
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
The act is always a choice: the inclination, in some cases, may not be.

It is decades of militant homosexualist activism that has effectively eroded morality to the point where people like you "don't give a damn what others do in private".

You should give a damn what others do in private. In fact, I'm pretty sure you do - you're just selective, like we all are, and for your own reasons have decided not to care about this particular issue. What people do in private changes who they are and impacts others. It affects their relations, loved ones, neighbors, and society. A man who enjoys torturing cats in private is that much more likely to be a horrible parent-friend-neighbor. No man is an island, etc.
You just implied consensual sex among adults involves the same of set of moral and ethical boundaries as man’s treatment of animals. Maybe that was not your specific intent, but its exactly this kind of rationalization of personal bias that allows evil to manifest itself. Try making that argument to the family of Matthew Shepard.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 04:44 PM
 
Location: A bit further north than before
1,651 posts, read 3,701,768 times
Reputation: 1465
Yup, this is the point where this thread ceases to be useful and everyone starts bickering.
Peace out.
 
Old 01-03-2012, 04:45 PM
 
1,364 posts, read 2,919,894 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
The act is always a choice: the inclination, in some cases, may not be.

It is decades of militant homosexualist activism that has effectively eroded morality to the point where people like you "don't give a damn what others do in private".

You should give a damn what others do in private. In fact, I'm pretty sure you do - you're just selective, like we all are, and for your own reasons have decided not to care about this particular issue. What people do in private changes who they are and impacts others. It affects their relations, loved ones, neighbors, and society. A man who enjoys torturing cats in private is that much more likely to be a horrible parent-friend-neighbor. No man is an island, etc.
Comparing homosexuality to torturing cats??? Really????
 
Old 01-03-2012, 04:49 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,156 posts, read 5,573,221 times
Reputation: 3594
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
What do the founding fathers have to do with this topic?

But since you brought them up, here's Thomas Jefferson's view:

"Whosoever shall be guilty of Rape, Polygamy, or Sodomy with man or woman shall be punished, if a man, by castration, if a woman, by cutting thro' the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch diameter at the least."

Jefferson makes ME look like a liberal!
Jefferson said many things, for instance:

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

~Thomas Jefferson, as President, in a letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

That's a wall. Not a fence with a one-way gate. As opposed to certain of the other things he said, including your selected quote, this conviction actually shaped our National charter.

He also said this, which we simply brush off as dicta:

I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

These were products of the Enlightenment who advocated a violent break from the existing order. That's the very antithesis of "conservative".
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