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This is why air defense is big business.
Without its presence, there would be many more attempts.
Yes....a wasteful equilibrium created by neanderthals....the crazy part? The sane folks are suppose to feel indebted to those involved!
But even if we stay within the domain of the insane...fighter jets really don't make much sense. Fighter jets provide little to no protection from terrorism and attacking a nation, by air, that has gone nuclear is pretty much suicide. There has yet to be an attack, by air, on a nuclear power.... So that leaves us with the alien invasion. Its good that California is well prepared!
But man, have you seen the price tag on those jets?
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Originally Posted by nullgeo
-- including disaster early-warning, disaster response, and search and rescue.
You don't need fighter jets and the military to perform these tasks, the fact that the military is involved in the US is just a matter of US history.
Yes....a wasteful equilibrium created by neanderthals....the crazy part? The sane folks are suppose to feel indebted to those involved!
But even if we stay within the domain of the insane...fighter jets really don't make much sense. Fighter jets provide little to no protection from terrorism and attacking a nation, by air, that has gone nuclear is pretty much suicide. There has yet to be an attack, by air, on a nuclear power.... So that leaves us with the alien invasion. Its good that California is well prepared!
But man, have you seen the price tag on those jets?
You don't need fighter jets and the military to perform these tasks, the fact that the military is involved in the US is just a matter of US history.
Well, pretty much correct in my book on most counts there ... in spite of the antagonistic fun you and I fling around at each other, I don't disagree with everything you say all the time ... and in this case: yes, it IS all a wasteful equilibrium created by psychopaths ... personally, I think quite highly of neanderthals, so allow me to substitute.
As far as "sane folks" feeling indebted -- well, first off, there aren't hardly any "sane folks", anywhere -- and I certainly wouldn't put you in that category with the super-minority. Among other things to note here is that, regardless of the insanity: this IS how the world goes round. The psychopaths run the show, always have, and I expect always will. Thus, yeah, kinda sorta folks should feel some gratitude that some non-psychopathic people participate in the balancing act. Stupid situations still require management and service.
Fighter jets are a necessary part of the mix. 9/11 was a new kind of air assault on a nuclear nation, no? Yes. A similar scenario could be tried again and almost certainly would be without deterrent -- including fighter jets.
You don't need -- or use fighter jets for S&R and early warning, etc. Right. You use fighters for air intercept. My point was that there are many facets to air defense ... and many aircraft of many types in service, at the ready. And, in fact, some light attack craft can, and have, intercepted and shot down even MiG's ... (several MiG's were shot down in Vietnam by A-1 light attack craft, the last of the combat propeller planes in service!). Point being, in answer to the earlier question of whether there were only 14 fighter's available on 9/11: no, there are thousands of aircraft available for air defense.
Price tags? How do you expect the psychos to maintain their illusion and bank accounts without impressive sticker price?
it IS all a wasteful equilibrium created by psychopaths ...
Psychopaths? Nah...just primates doing what they usually do....
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Originally Posted by nullgeo
Thus, yeah, kinda sorta folks should feel some gratitude that some non-psychopathic people participate in the balancing act.
Oh yeah? What does this have to do with the military? The peons in the military are no different than the ones on top, indeed, the peons are all competing for higher ranking positions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
9/11 was a new kind of air assault on a nuclear nation, no? Yes. A similar scenario could be tried again and almost certainly would be without deterrent...
A similar scenario could be tried, but why bother when there are thousands of other scenarios that you could try instead?
Psychopaths? Nah...just primates doing what they usually do....
Primates / psychopaths -- pretty close to a redundancy ...
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Originally Posted by user_id
Oh yeah? What does this have to do with the military? The peons in the military are no different than the ones on top, indeed, the peons are all competing for higher ranking positions.
I should have written "less psychopathic" rather than "non" ... actually the peons aren't at all looking for real command positions very often ... certainly not at the Pentagon or political levels ... and none of that is the point anyway ... the reality IS: nutcases have always run the world -- the rest of us just have to find survival niches ... and thinking you are above it all makes no difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
A similar scenario could be tried, but why bother when there are thousands of other scenarios that you could try instead?
There are indeed ... bazillions of them ... but "they" "bothered" once, and they loved the dramatic effect ... they'd do it again in a heartbeat if they thought they could ... some have tried.
Primates / psychopaths -- pretty close to a redundancy ...
Then your commentary doesn't make much sense....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
...nutcases have always run the world -- the rest of us just have to find survival niches ... and thinking you are above it all makes no difference.
So we are back to this, the idea that those on top are "psychopaths" (or now "nutcases") where as the peasantry is some how different..... An odd distinction considering its the peasantry that carries out the acts of terror...
Regardless, fighter jets provide little protection......they are even likely to be useless in the case of an alien invasion!
So we are back to this, the idea that those on top are "psychopaths" (or now "nutcases") where as the peasantry is some how different..... An odd distinction considering its the peasantry that carries out the acts of terror...
Regardless, fighter jets provide little protection......they are even likely to be useless in the case of an alien invasion!
You're funny
Peasants are not the responsible motivators, financiers, planners, etc. They are dupes and pawns. And without their defense of people, including the likes of you, you'd be over-run because the more elite class will pay to have you killed in one scenario or another of conflict.
Scenario: Red-Butt Baboon troupe (hereinafter known as RBB's) decides it wants the bananas Blue Faced Baboon troupe (hereinafter known as BFB's) has horded. BFB user_id scoffs at the notion that RBB's will attack -- because?: he says "it's stupid behavior". Regardless, RBB appear on BFB rockpile and begin hurling stones. BFB null says, "dude, they really will kill you for those bananas ... better get down while I kick the sh*t out of a few to turn them back." BFB user_id says, "you (null) are as stupid as they are." BFB null says, well, enjoy your last banana, I got a fight to jump into."
Later, BFB null comes back -- albeit a bit scuffed up -- and finds BFB user_id with his gonads ripped out and stuffed down his throat and all user's bananas are gone. BFB null chuckles and says, "well, there you have it ... another stupid day ... another stupid death over stupid bananas."
Doesn't matter if it's all stupid, user ... it matters how you DEAL with stupid. And holding yourself out as superior won't stop the assault, nor garner support. Now that's what I call the stupidest behavior of all.
Fighter jets, btw, provide great protection. I have served under their protection while kicking RBB arse. Toodles, and g'night.
You're funny
Peasants are not the responsible motivators, financiers, planners, etc.
Yeah, as I said, they are the executioner and for that they are some how superior?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
BFB user_id scoffs at the notion that RBB's will attack -- because?: he says "it's stupid behavior". Regardless, RBB appear on BFB rockpile and begin hurling stones.
Of course you are just mixing up my claims...."its stupid behavior" doesn't represent any position I've expressed here.
Regardless, naturally I can get caught up in the warring of brain stems, but from this how does it follow I should pay tribute to one particular group over another?
Your thinking about this matter always assumes some sort of alliance to a particular nation, remove than alliance and your commentary doesn't make much sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Fighter jets, btw, provide great protection. I have served under their protection while kicking RBB arse.
Great protection? Is that why so many Americans died and that despite superior technology they couldn't even overtake a bunch of uneducated Southeast Asians? But beyond that, this reference is odd, in this case you were the aggressor so the jets weren't providing "protection" in the sense being referred to previously.
So anyways....California is prepared for that alien invasion meanwhile millions of Californians are poor and hardly have food.
Yeah, as I said, they are the executioner and for that they are some how superior?
Never used any word like "superior" ... you're the guy who always thnks in terms of superiority / inferiority ... you know: you're superior to the "proles", etc
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Originally Posted by user_id
Of course you are just mixing up my claims...."its stupid behavior" doesn't represent any position I've expressed here.
Sure it does ... it's what you do, user
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Regardless, naturally I can get caught up in the warring of brain stems, but from this how does it follow I should pay tribute to one particular group over another?
Well, it's like this: you pick a group to ally with or they all kill you ... pick one you like better than another ... or die ... I don't care if you do or don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Your thinking about this matter always assumes some sort of alliance to a particular nation, remove than alliance and your commentary doesn't make much sense.
Remove the alliance and you don't need to make sense -- because you die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Great protection? Is that why so many Americans died and that despite superior technology they couldn't even overtake a bunch of uneducated Southeast Asians? But beyond that, this reference is odd, in this case you were the aggressor so the jets weren't providing "protection" in the sense being referred to previously.
Your apparent ignorance of the Vietnam war is astounding -- unless, no, couldn't be, you are just being argumentative for argument's sake? How much of a lesson would you like? Which subject should we start with? How the behind the scenes political maneuvering by the White House and Pentagon restricted logistics to resulting unfavorable outcomes, and dictated military action and restraint in contradiction to real war science? If you think for a moment that the American military was incapable of turning a country the size of New Jersey, populated by people in pajamas, into a steaming mud puddle within a few months, at most, then you have never read anything on the subject.
That said, were those uneducated S.E. Asians clever and effective fighters? You betcha. Slicker than cat slobber in a bait bucket. But if the military had been allowed to unleash its air power in particular: phbbbbt .. Good night Irene.
As for "aggressor" and jet "protection" -- are you really as totally ignorant as you seem in that comment? At times my squadron was aggressor in Search & Destroy missions ... we flew light attack craft which are very slow compared to fighters. Light attack carry copious amounts of ordinance more than any fighter can fly with. We blew the sh*t out of everything in sight -- while fighters flew what's called cover, from MiG's, that would otherwise have come in to engage our slow speed with their high speed. However, whenever a Mayday was received from a pilot going down -- or from troops trapped on the ground, it was our specialty to fly in at tree-top level with heavy ordinance to cover the rescue choppers ... at which time, you guessed it, the fighters flew cover so we could light up the jungle without attack from above. Without fighters, we would have been ducks in a barrel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
So anyways....California is prepared for that alien invasion meanwhile millions of Californians are poor and hardly have food.
Correct. Hungry, but alive ... pawns and fodder in the psychopaths' games. Think you can stop it? Heh. I don't like it either, user ... but you are quite literally alive because you Have chosen a baboon troupe to ally with, and your troupe has superior military abilities and guys like me to cover your butt. But gotta say, bro, if the sh*t were on, guys like me would slit your throat in a heartbeat so we wouldn't have to deal with wondering what you were up to behind our back while we fought for people who actually cared about us in return.
Never used any word like "superior" ... you're the guy who always thnks in terms of superiority / inferiority ...
Change the word if you don't like "superior", the point remains the same, namely that you think the executioners are some how different (less insane....or whatever) than the ones making the orders. I don't know, seems like its the opposite?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Well, it's like this: you pick a group to ally with or they all kill you ... pick one you like better than another ... or die ... I don't care if you do or don't.
It is? Why is that? You are speaking as if I'm living in a society with a small number of people and only two groups....that isn't even true of the Monkey societies you are pretending to talk about....its absurd when talking about human civilizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
If you think for a moment that the American military was incapable of turning a country the size of New Jersey, populated by people in pajamas, into a steaming mud puddle within a few months, at most, then you have never read anything on the subject.
The US military was capable of such, but there wouldn't be many people left either.... But no, I'm not interested in hearing about the Vietnam war from you. The important point is that the fighter jets in the case you brought up were functioning much differently than fighter jets "protecting" the nation from an attack. The Americans were the aggressor, the Americans were on foreign soil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
... but you are quite literally alive because you Have chosen a baboon troupe to ally with
Chosen? Choice has nothing to do with it, I was born in the US and here I am. You are speaking in terms of troupes, but a troupe is nothing like a modern nation. Modern nations contain numerous sub-cultures, communities, etc and all these elements are glued together into a nation via nationalism.....but not all communities or individuals have an alliance to the nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
But gotta say, bro, if the sh*t were on, guys like me would slit your throat in a heartbeat so we wouldn't have to deal with wondering what you were up to behind our back while we fought for people who actually cared about us in return.
Precisely, this way of thinking is exactly why I have absolutely no interest in aligning myself with "guys like you".
But seriously, anybody like myself realizes that the threat from "guys like you" is real, after all one can find many historic examples of throat slitting. We tend to only speak about matters in polite company, otherwise we appear much like "guys like you". Amusingly, the internet provides some interaction that would not be possible "in real life". But also, interestingly, those "on top" tolerant us on some level even when the peasantry would rather cut our throats. After all, without us they wouldn't have all their fancy war machines....
Regardless, the fighter jets are largely useless in terms of "protection" and its amazing the sort of deference killing machines get in American culture.
... It is? Why is that? You are speaking as if I'm living in a society with a small number of people and only two groups....that isn't even true of the Monkey societies you are pretending to talk about....its absurd when talking about human civilizations.
It damn sure is, user ... once again, you are off into territory without a map or a clue. Chimp and baboon troupes are prime examples ... and many other primates as well ... troupe sizes are limited by the size of whichever species' neo-cortex (as proven by the work of Robin Dunbar) ... once a maximum society is reached and new members are spun off, they must leave the area ... neighboring troupes are barely tolerated and sometimes attacked for apparently no reason at all ... individuals roaming unallied are commonly killed. But, oh my! .... aren't they cute!
This is NOT absurd when talking about human civilizations either, as Dunbar's work went on to demonstrate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
The US military was capable of such, but there wouldn't be many people left either.... But no, I'm not interested in hearing about the Vietnam war from you. The important point is that the fighter jets in the case you brought up were functioning much differently than fighter jets "protecting" the nation from an attack. The Americans were the aggressor, the Americans were on foreign soil.
Of course you aren't. And it is immaterial to the declaration you posed earlier that "fighter jets" are not effective protection. Whether I was an aggressor being covered -- or a defender being covered -- and I functioned as both inasmuch as I executed in search and rescue in defense of trapped troops -- the fighters were critical and effective. They are obviously capable of intercepting hijacked aircraft and taking them down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Chosen? Choice has nothing to do with it, I was born in the US and here I am. You are speaking in terms of troupes, but a troupe is nothing like a modern nation. Modern nations contain numerous sub-cultures, communities, etc and all these elements are glued together into a nation via nationalism.....but not all communities or individuals have an alliance to the nation.
You were born here and you choose to stay here -- because the U.S. is your preferred relationship ... otherwise you would leave. You do not feel any obligation to your country, we know, you have stated such. But you remain associated for your benefit. Much like a parasite to host -- admittedly sometimes a symbiotic relationship. In your case: I dunno whether America gets any value from you. Hard to imagine. But --
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Originally Posted by user_id
Precisely, this way of thinking is exactly why I have absolutely no interest in aligning myself with "guys like you".
Right. It's a two-way, mutual distaste (to put it mildly).
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id
Regardless, the fighter jets are largely useless in terms of "protection" and its amazing the sort of deference killing machines get in American culture.
No, they are exceptionally useful in protection. And yes, it IS amazing, rather unfortunately, the deference that killing machines get in all primary national cultures. A real statement of what a bunch of 'natural born killers' homo sapiens really are. Tsk, too. One can see other sides to our nature that I find entirely more appealing. And yet, here we are as always, protecting our bananas.
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